WaPo - The Post asked experts to examine 5 viral videos of police shootings.

[Erick Gelhaus]

From last weekend.

The Post asked experts to examine 5 viral videos of police shootings. Here’s their analysis.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...e6a_story.html
(Replace DOT with a . and remove the spaces on either side).

Here are their reviewers:
The Experts
Stacy Lim - Training instructor with the LAPD (note: she was involved in a pretty significant shooting many years back)
Geoffrey Alpert - Professor in the Department of Criminology and Criminal Justice at the University of South Carolina
David Klinger - Use-of-force expert and criminology professor with the University of Missouri-St. Louis
Ron McCarthy - A national police use-of-force expert and former director-at-large of the National Tactical Officers Association

[Dagga Boy]

Well, it is painfully obvious that Geoffrey Alpert has zip for practical real world experience.

[Sammy1]

Ron McCarthy is a POS!

[Dagga Boy]

Ron McCarthy is a POS!

He was a mentor, friend, and our agencies use of force SME for OIS's. We never lost with Ron. He is getting up there in years, but calling the Godfather of SWAT a POS is a bit much.

[Sammy1]

His own words in his analysis say it loud and clear. I don't know who he was in the past, I'm judging him from his commentary in the article. For instance going to the low ready, really. We haven't been taught the low ready in five years, we're taught to come back to the center at the high ready and the firearm would've been kept up and on target as the Officer did until the car was cleared and the threat was handcuffed. I didn't hear what Geoffrey Alpert had to say because I shut it off after listening to McCarthy. The current attitude toward LEO and Monday morning quarterbacking incidents are really getting to me. I'm sorry if I offended you, like I said I don't know the man and was only judging him from the news clip.

[Tamara]

For instance going to the low ready, really. We haven't been taught the low ready in five years, we're taught to come back to the center at the high ready...

Why?

[Erick Gelhaus]

Sammy - Where did you come across audio files of McCarthy et al commenting on these?

I would not discount McCarthy's opinions based on the low ready vs compressed high ready issue. We need to see the hands and what they have access to until they are secured and searched. If one is on target, they may not be able to see all that they need to. (While not material to this discussion, I am not a fan of the compressed high ready for police work.) For more of the argument on Low Ready vs other positions, conside Nyeti's commentaries on managing BadGuys. I do recall experienced officers from the midwest who had varying opinions on McCarthy from cases he testified back there; however, I cannot recall the specifics. I think one is here and hopefully he will opine.

Alpert's experience is completely academic. He has written prolifically on use of force issues. He also has co-authors with differing degrees of actual police/patrol experience.

I don't know when Sgt. Lim was last on the street. If her name is familiar, iirc, she was followed home by a carload of gangsters and was the victim of an attempt car-jacking / murder in her driveway. She took a large caliber handgun round to her heart, got her pistol into play, and killed the shooter. She coded multiple times before the surgery was done. Ayoob wrote up her shooting and I heard her presentation on it & mindset some years back.

Klinger was a LAPD officer who shot & killed a BadGuy stabbing his partner. He ended up in academia at the University of Missouri-StL and has authored a book on police shootings. He got a lot of air time after the attempted murder of Off. Darren Wilson in Ferguson.

20/20 hindsight, MMQBing, or AARs & de-briefs ... as a profession we need to start seriously AARing or de-briefing events and learning from them. Then sharing the lessons across the profession. Not only doing this but sharing wqithin very short time frames rather than waiting years for legal / civil processes to end.
20/20 Hindsight & MMQBing ... Graham v. Connor and nearly every federal case since then has addressed not doing that as part of th legal standard for evaluating the event. Sadly, this whole thing is getting reversed. We aren't learning from these events yet a whole bunh of people are judging from the luxury of a desk or couch without any perspective.

BreakBreak ... side bar. In the time it took me to type this, the software logged me out. Fortunately I have learned to copy anything I type here until it posts because of that.

[Wondering Beard]

For instance going to the low ready, really. We haven't been taught the low ready in five years, we're taught to come back to the center at the high ready .

Didn't we have a long thread on just that subject a while back?

Nothing wrong with low ready that I know of.

[voodoo_man]

If you don't let anyone else other than active street officers review these things you will get what you get.

A lot of nonsense

[Dagga Boy]

His own words in his analysis say it loud and clear. I don't know who he was in the past, I'm judging him from his commentary in the article. For instance going to the low ready, really. We haven't been taught the low ready in five years, we're taught to come back to the center at the high ready and the firearm would've been kept up and on target as the Officer did until the car was cleared and the threat was handcuffed. I didn't hear what Geoffrey Alpert had to say because I shut it off after listening to McCarthy. The current attitude toward LEO and Monday morning quarterbacking incidents are really getting to me. I'm sorry if I offended you, like I said I don't know the man and was only judging him from the news clip.

I don't know where you work, or that because you got rid of low ready five years ago, it must suck, but Ron McArthy supervised and was part of the finest LE SWAT team in country who made the biggest inroads as far as effectively shooting criminals under the most restrictive use of force Federal court in the country.

I ll just leave it there. If you are basing someone's knowledge on the use of the low ready, I am likely a fricking retard as well. It is no wonder that when I discussed this exact subject with one of the most prolific gunfighter's on the west coast he has not wanted to teach since retirement as it seems like actual experience at doing stuff for real daily is no longer valid.

Let me also add that I realize policing is regional. The sprawl of SoCal leads to doing things different than maybe vertical policing on the east coast. With that said, much of what is done on the west coast is very structured. It is done for a reason.....which is to try to remove emotion from the equation. Most of McArthy's answers were from that structured response and a career of essentially working Metropolitian Division where officers are working very heavy crime suppression and targeting the worst offenders...thus, most approaches and tactics were based on that.

Unfortunately, most agencies crap on the folks who want to stay in patrol and build massive levels of expertise on how to handle patrol type crisis response. Usually looked at as slugs, not special, and generally stupid for not wanting to promote or be special, we do not have a solid expert base to draw from. By the same token, we cannot seem to give patrol based hi risk training away. Seems, that unless you were a "Special" something or in a Uber Ninja Military unit, your opinion on how to do high risk patrol tactics is invalid compared to people who never have. Thus, we have lots of "experts" with very little patrol experience.