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Thread: LMS Defense Intermediate Carbine

  1. #1
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    LMS Defense Intermediate Carbine

    20160731 Sacramento Valley Shooting Center - Sloughhouse, Sacramento 0830-1630

    Instructor: Jason Paletta, 17 year Law Enforcement Officer, current patrol and SWAT officer with previous experience in overseas contracting and 82nd Airborne veteran.

    Introduction: Second carbine formal class on record, first LMS class. I am already very well versed in weapons manipulation, malfunction clearances, overall functionality, and knowledgeable in how the platform functions. Expecting to see in this class, pushing fundamentals under duress.

    Equipment: JACK 2.0 and 727 clone as back up carbine, Beretta 92 G-SD. Ran PMag Gen 2 with magpods and USGI mags. HSGI Slim Grip Belt: Double Pistol Tacos, 2 ITW Rifle Fast Mags, Ronin Tactics medical pull out pouch, Safariland holster with UBL w/ single leg strap. Wore a plaid button up shirt, M81 woodland pants, Nike Trainers and Arcteryx Knee Caps.

    Ammunition: 500 rounds of Tula 55gr. .223, 100 rounds of Freedom Munitions 115gr. 9mm ball

    Range Time: Jason gave me and another student 15mins to check and confirm zeros. I had a fresh 727 clone upper that just got in and had no time to zero that thing in prior to class. 727 was dead on so I After class introductions and safety brief, we hit the modified Navy Qual (at 50 yards and tactical reloads).

    This was the first time I actually ran the Navy Qual live fire as I often fantasized how fun the shooting string would be during my dry fire practices. Jason put a white piece of paper onto a standard USPSA target and that was what we were shooting at for the qual. Off the bat, I sucked, I could not attain focus at all. Under the timer, I let the time get to me and it was a soup sandwich from there. As I moved down to the kneeling position, I actually drew a pistol magazine as the Double Taco MALICE clips rode up. As I planted my knee to the ground, I inserted the right magazine into my carbine. As I went down to the prone, I had thought I had inserted the magazine but it fell out when I hit the deck...MOOSECOCK'd. I even shouted that when that happened, so the insert and pull to confirm methodology; very adamant for topping off. Overall, the practice (modified) Navy Qual was horrible, only 5 out of 15 on white piece of paper, rest were just low of the target.

    We ran the Qual again for time and I felt a bit better but the pressure got to me again and I had actually fired only 4 rounds per string and made only 7 out of 12. Not going smooth at all. We then got into reloads and transitions with long gun to side arm. Easy and simple enough; shoot one round reload the gun on an empty chamber. Jason talked about how the safety selector is a good indicator of what condition is the weapon when it stops firing, something I am very, very adamant upon. Transition drills were simple; shoot two rounds and gun stops working, transition to side arm. Jason wanted us to be aware of why we were doing this, if the pistol is out, that should be your "cover" if there is no actual cover for yourself or someone covering you. I did have a factory Beretta magazine puke its guts out as I went to top off the gun, I topped it off with a Mec Gar magazine and Jason commented that I should ditch the Beretta and get a Glock (lol I've got two).

    Malfunction clearances: type 1, 2, 3. Simple enough, safety selector helps indicator what kind of malfunction. Type 3 however, I believe in retaining the magazine in the support hand that is charging the charging handle to clear the malfunction, dumping potentially a good amount of ammo being lost is somewhat prohibitive in a gunfight, but it makes sense if you want all your hands free. We went head to head with other students and I had the fasted time but I did not do the way it was instructed as, so I lost. It's fine, I took it. We did not go over bolt overrides, but it was clear to the class (or to me) that the basic process of the clearing malfunctions is basically unloading the gun efficiently, some students did not recognize that they needed to lock the bolt and/or take the magazine out of the equation during a type 3 (and 4) malfunction. Jason then asked if anyone wanted to loan their carbine to setup an evolution of malfunction clearances from 15 to 100 yards. I gave him my 727 clone and volunteered to go first. Type 1, 2, 3 malfunctions down from the first to last carbine and take shots at steel. I will take the time to say that I absolutely do not like low mounts for red dots, sinking my face into the gun is just not comfortable for me at all. I then set up malfunctions for the next student, slipped a type 4 malfunction in my 727 clone for a friend at the class.

    We then went into mechanical offset at close range. We had six one inch circles with the numbers mixed up in between. I really failed big time in this portion of the class. My shots were either too low or high from my point of aim. In my last carbine class, I was really confident in my mechanical offset at close range, utilizing the space between red dot and front sight post (using 1/3 mount), I did realize that I have a KNS thinner front sight post on my front sight base but even then, should not be that difficult to make those low percentage shots. Jason then had us incorporate pivoting into the threat.

    We then moved onto shoulder transitions. Jason was not a fan of switching shoulders to engage a threat, stating that the application to do so is very slim and very desperate as this should be used as a last resort while sucked into a covered position. I personally believe in being an ambidextrous shooter, that either side of shooting should be somewhat natural and second nature. Overall, we both recognize that consistency of either side of shooting needs be attained and mastered for when the shooter has to switch sides. Being able to shoot bilaterally eventually came to proliferation as we moved down the line and shot a burst of fire from threats at the direction we were walking from both shoulders at the direction we were walking. Here, I witnessed more students still struggling with their two point slings during this drill when shooting from their opposite shoulder.

    We paused the class for a 30 minute lunch. The weather and range was unforgiving. No shade down range where our equipment tables were and we were under over 100 degree heat. I went through a gallon of water and gatorade by the end of the day. Being hydrated and packing enough water was crucial for the class and facility.

    Back from lunch, we hit positional shooting. Standing, kneeling, prone, side prone, and urban prone. Simple stuff, those with long sleeves and suffering throughout the class greatly benefit from protection of hot brass and hot sharp rocks on the deck as they hit different prone positions. Jason then brought out the VTAC barricades for us to incorporate positional shooting and mechanical offset. Standing and slight crouching shots were fine hitting steel at 25m. Before reaching to bottom ports, I sailed two rounds through the plywood at the low kneeling position. I am not a fan of the urban and side prone, so I reverted to what I was comfortable with; broke back prone (taught by Kyle Lamb and Mike Pannone). We went through one evolution of the drill before Jason moved us back to 150m and gave us the quick and dirty for
    moving and bounding. From 150m we would fire and maneuver forward onto the VTAC barricade that we had left at 25m. "I'm up, he sees me, I'm down" to gauge how much time you should be on your feet moving before hitting prone again. Heat, exhaustion, sore knees, and burns from brass and rocks definitely affected me this run. It was the final exercise of the day and I wanted to go hard. I initiated the shooting onto steel as my partner ran up. For some reason, I thought I had to make at least three solid hits on steel before moving at the reports of my partner's fire. I eventually got so transfixed onto hitting the steel under fatigue and duress, that Jason had to kick me up to get my ass moving forward. When I got to the VTAC barricade, I was down to my last mag and partially loaded. My partner was already using his pistol and I was so out of breath that I could not focus on finding the steel through my optic for a few long seconds. By the time I reached the bottom ports, I hit broke back prone again and the Geissele handguard was so hot that my support hand burned. I ignored the pain on my hand and brass in my shirt and sleeves and broke my shots onto steel. I found myself shooting in these prone positions at the most non ideal platforms, as I was wrapped around having coverage of the barricade itself instead of just using the barricade as just ports for the exercise. So, I would find myself in side prone without adequate stability but still make my shots onto steel. At the end of the exercise, I was spent.

    Class Feedback/Thoughts: This class kicked my ass. Good training day of putting everything a carbine shooter should know and putting it down range. There was not a thing that was covered that I already did not know and I fully recognized and adhere to that. I came to the class knowing what was expected and that I should be able to throw down when it came to throwing it down.

    The class size was ten, absolutely perfect class size. The students, really interesting, apart from me and another guy from the bay area, everyone was in their 40-50s, 60s, and 70s. Old timers who were retired military or LE. Really inspiring to see them throw it down and still be smooth and accurate with their carbines. Multiple of them were repeated students of LMS, so that resonates on how effective and worthwhile the material taught by the company is, let alone Jason's multiple classes.

    My only criticism of the class is how much downtime we had, but it really is expected with the varying pace and adeptness of the individual students. I greatly appreciate and admire Jason's dedication to the company, students, and his job as an active duty patrol cop. Jason had to leave immediately after the class due to a running shortage of available patrol officers for the grave shift that night, so he had to be wide awake for well over 20 hours straight.

    Observations/Opinions/Closing: Right off the bat I want to say, M81 BDU pants, absolutely fucking rock. Cheap, surplus, durable, and the cargo pockets made for great dump pouches. I had two additional magazines and loose rounds for our drills and to reduce time to plus up on ammo. I had my keys, wallet, and phone in the other cargo pocket and everything stayed in place very securely. I should have just donned the BDU top to prevent from brass burns and debris build up. I will be running these surplus cammies for now on for my tactical classes.

    That being said, I brought a plate carrier but due to the heat, did not use it. No one had a plate carrier or chest rig other than one veteran student who ran a vest due to mobility and keeping rifle mags away from his belt line other than his pistol at the 5 oclock.

    Class ran all AR15s, one 300blk carbine that suffered a squib and repeated malfunctions throughout the class. I believe it was a BCM upper, but the owner said he has not lubed the gun in awhile. There was one LWRC IC carbine, my friend who shoots carbine with his left side due to having only his left eye (ambi controls), and one SIg 516 upper. I experienced three failure to fire with my ammo, Tula, expected. Overall, fired a little over 500 rounds.

    Jason had his work gun; Mk18Mod0 with a DBAL (A2 I believe) civilian, with an Inforce WML mounted at 9 oclock, Tango Down foregrip with tape switch for his DBAL, Aimpoint Comp M2, and a make shift single point sling that was a nylon strap around his torso with a climber's hook as the pivot to join the second nylon his Magpul ASAP plate. Also wore OD Green uniform set (under the heat, impressive) with his battle belt consisting of: ATS War Belt with suspenders, LAG Tactical double rifle and double pistol kydex pouches, and a Safariland ALS holster on a UBL w/ single leg strap for his Glock 17 w/ Streamlight TLR1.

    Overall, I really enjoyed getting my ass kicked in this class. Jason is a great instructor and teacher and overall, great dude to have around. I enjoy meeting and making connections through these classes with the instructor and students in regards of getting advice for my pursuit towards a law enforcement career. I will definitely be taking more LMS Defense classes in the future and already slated to take Jason's Bad Breath Pistol class and Vehicle Defense class in the coming months. Plenty to practice and work on indefinitely. I highly recommend this class.

    Last edited by victran; 08-05-2016 at 02:37 PM.

  2. #2
    I took a class from Jason in 2014. I thought he was a good instructor.

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