Not So Blinding Revelation RE Left-Shooting Glock Gen4 G22

[TCinVA]

Work against a dead trigger the same way you'd do normal dryfire. Look for any movement of the sights. I did this at Bob Vogel's direction and found that due to the way my big meaty paws were on the gun I was actually pushing the gun slightly left-ward at the very end of the trigger pull.

To correct that I need to use a lot less trigger finger on Glocks, and I need to position my trigger finger as low on the trigger as possible. This means that the very tip of my index finger is depressing the trigger button and by all appearances I'm only on half of the trigger.

People with really large hands and people with smaller hands who have to twist the gun in the hand slightly to reach the trigger often experience this problem with Glocks.

[BJXDS]

Work against a dead trigger the same way you'd do normal dryfire. Look for any movement of the sights. I did this at Bob Vogel's direction and found that due to the way my big meaty paws were on the gun I was actually pushing the gun slightly left-ward at the very end of the trigger pull.

To correct that I need to use a lot less trigger finger on Glocks, and I need to position my trigger finger as low on the trigger as possible. This means that the very tip of my index finger is depressing the trigger button and by all appearances I'm only on half of the trigger.

People with really large hands and people with smaller hands who have to twist the gun in the hand slightly to reach the trigger often experience this problem with Glocks.

This works for me as well as making the tigger feel much lighter and almost as smooth as the PPQ. More trigger finger just didn't do the trick.

[Sig_Fiend]

People with really large hands and people with smaller hands who have to twist the gun in the hand slightly to reach the trigger often experience this problem with Glocks.

THIS. Although it may differ from person to person a bit, it seems to be a matter of simple physics and angles at work with several factors. For one, the alignment of the gun in relation to the wrist. A lot of people, myself included, seem to slip into what some refer to as an "over-grip" position, with the gun centered more towards the base of the palm, and less centered towards the wrist, radius and ulna. I would guess that alone is already much more likely to place an influence on movement of the gun while depressing the trigger. In addition, you have the shape of the arch of the backstrap, which when coupled with over-grip, is possibly making it much more likely for the gun to rotate in the hands into even more of an over-grip position. Couple that with the possibility of lateral torque on the trigger, or a support side thumb pressed into the frame, or the base of the index finger (proximal phalanx/flexor digitorum superficialis tendon) on the frame, and you have a perfect storm of torque possibly being applied in every direction except the one you want.

Here are some things that have helped me:

• Modify your grip alignment
  
  • When you grip the gun in a standard two-handed grip, do you notice the gun is centered pretty heavily towards the base of your thumb? If so, take a second, bring your support hand off of the gun and use it to center the gun inline with your gun hand. The gun will now be centered inline with your entire primary arm, though this alignment doesn't maintain itself 100% once you reestablish your two-handed grip. The alignment with the arm is merely a gauge to get closer to an optimal position with a two-handed grip. Take note of any different feeling in your grip from gripping the gun at this slightly modified angle. What did it do for your trigger finger placement? These are some questions to consider for later, as this may not necessarily fix the problem. For small hands, this might create problems for trigger reach, for example. Now reestablish your two-handed grip, and slow fire for accuracy. Notice anything different? For me, it was significantly less muzzle flip and more consistent shots, as the improved alignment of the gun towards a more "meaty" portion of the hand provided better recoil control and less movement of the gun in my hand.
  
  
• 5 in 1 drill
  
  • This one has helped me a lot. I believe it came from Paul Howe, though I don't know if it originated somewhere before him. In essence, for each live round you want to have 5 perfect dry fires. If you did this for an entire 50rd box of ammo, that would be 300 trigger presses (5+1 live). That's assuming each 5 are perfect... Yank one? You need to make it up until you have 5 perfect ones total. This is quick, easy, and if you do it right, a single box of ammo will wear you out! How this seems to really help is, you transition back and forth from live fire to dry fire, with enough of an interval of dry fire, that you will be experiencing proper fundamentals, and quickly transitioning back into live fire. The real value is seeing and experiencing it, as that does far more than any lengthy analysis and explanation will.
  
  
• Modify trigger finger placement
  
  • As there is no one-size-fits-all method, and many different ways people's individual physiology allow this fundamental to be exercised effectively, the truth is you simply need to try out multiple methods and find what works for you consistently. Try LOTS of finger. Try a little, as in just the tip. Try positions anywhere in between. How about low or high on trigger, as I think a few others mentioned? While doing this, do it for score and maintain accountability for your shots, as you want to establish a baseline, and try to determine differences in group size/placement with different methods.
  
  
• Modify grip tension
  
  • This is possibly one of the more difficult factors, since it's not always easy to perceive it based on someone's description. It's something you really have to feel and experience, before you'll experience those light bulb moments of what's going to work best for you. As with trigger finger placement, try a bunch of stuff. Death grip with both. Death grip with just one, and alternate between the two. Now try a light grip. What do you notice with how your sights track in recoil. Have your shot groups been affected? Now change up the way you squeeze what you squeeze and see what that does. For example, most people seem to just squeeze each hand, or at least their gun hand, like they're holding a bat. In essence, a full 360 degree squeeze. Instead, consciously think about squeezing the medial and proximal phalanges (middle or base of your fingers) of your gun hand straight into the front strap, while forcing the base of your thumb forward into the backstrap. The way the average person does it, they might be more focused (whether consciously or subconsciously) in applying tension through their finger tips, into the side of the grip. That does less to control recoil, and could potentially induce some issues.

The comment about Glocks being unkind to overly-analytical thinking is GOLD. A lot of truth to that. At the same time, I would also say that Glocks are superb at highlighting the different effects on the fundamentals caused by individual, physiological differences. Possibly more so than many other platforms.

[martin_j001]

Definitely going to give the above some tries. I have noticed I seem to be shooting left more often lately with both my G17 and G34. Really only noticeable once I get to 15 yards and further, but definitely at 25. Yesterday, I got to play with a buddies 320 and was ringing a quarter size steel target at 25 yards with easily 80-90% of my shots, while my Glock 17 was not treating me as well. Had others confirm the sights were on, so I've got some trigger control work to do. Need to make some more time for dry fire... I'm open to any suggestions anyone might have that may help me out too.

[spinmove_]

There is one thing that I've discovered recently while still more completely eliminating shooting left lately is how my trigger finger moves in relation to the frame. A couple of days ago I noticed that, despite how confidently I'd press the trigger smoothly, and despite how consistent my grip was on the pistol, I was still occasionally pushed the front sight around in dry fire. In an attempt to forcibly eliminate the push by "Vogel-ising" my grip more (exherting a ton of inward torque with both arms for experimentation purposes) I noticed that the index finger on my support hand was starting to grind into the middle finger on my firing hand. This caused my trigger finger to track up inside the trigger guard higher than it normally would to the point where my trigger finger would push up against the frame on the roof of the trigger area. While relaxing this grip and backing off a bit, I noticed that I still had a tendency to have my trigger finger push up against the frame despite not forcibly pushing it into the frame. I then started modifying my trigger press to make sure I made no contact to MAYBE just barely touching the frame just above the trigger. Once I started doing that, I was able to consistently get clean trigger presses. Speeding up my dry fire trigger presses, they remained clean.

This may not be your solution or even what is causing your issue, but it's something I think would be worth investigating. Looking at the frame of Glocks and then comparing them to the frames of a lot of different pistols out there, the Glock is considerably fatter in the area immediately above the trigger than a lot of other solutions.

Maybe I'm just crazy and weird and I'm the only person doing weird pushing on the Glock frame in this manner, but I have a feeling I'm probably not.

[LSP552]

I will add that the ideal finger placement is the one that allows you to finish the press straight to the rear without disturbing the sights. It's really worth experimenting with more, less, up, down to see what works best for you. So much of this is grip and hand size and shape related.

[spinmove_]

I will add that the ideal finger placement is the one that allows you to finish the press straight to the rear without disturbing the sights. It's really worth experimenting with more, less, up, down to see what works best for you. So much of this is grip and hand size and shape related.

Very much this. You almost can't rely on any one person's recommended technique because that particular technique works for that person's particular hands.

[M2CattleCo]

I will add that the ideal finger placement is the one that allows you to finish the press straight to the rear without disturbing the sights. It's really worth experimenting with more, less, up, down to see what works best for you. So much of this is grip and hand size and shape related.

I can't pull a Glock trigger straight back because of the way the middle of my trigger finger hits the frame above the trigger. I think that's also what makes me shoot left with 'em.

I can shoot a Glock decent enough to use 'em for whatever if I practice a lot, but ultimately, I find that I can stay more proficient with less time and effort expended with a regular DA/SA P226 and P239, so I went that route.

[martin_j001]

I can't pull a Glock trigger straight back because of the way the middle of my trigger finger hits the frame above the trigger. I think that's also what makes me shoot left with 'em.

I can shoot a Glock decent enough to use 'em for whatever if I practice a lot, but ultimately, I find that I can stay more proficient with less time and effort expended with a regular DA/SA P226 and P239, so I went that route.

In doing some dry fire just the other day, and paying very close attention to things having recently become very frustrated by shooting left, I noticed this as well. The problem, for me, was made worse by the addition of Grip Force adapters on my gen 3 guns...the extra distance to the trigger, while not greatly increased, seemed to cause my finger to be more prone to contacting the frame above the trigger (not at the typical spot along the side of the gun). I removed the Grip Force adapters, and find that I am still very prone to be in contact with the frame above the trigger. While it is avoidable, it is nowhere near "normal" feeling...yet. It is making me strongly consider a platform change.... ETA: I'm assuming this is something I can probably get past with enough repetitions, but the fact that I can pick up a gun I've fondled once and ring steel at 25 yards with relative ease makes me think my efforts may be better invested in improving my capabilities with another platform... Open to thoughts and suggestions, as always...

[spinmove_]

I can't pull a Glock trigger straight back because of the way the middle of my trigger finger hits the frame above the trigger. I think that's also what makes me shoot left with 'em.

I can shoot a Glock decent enough to use 'em for whatever if I practice a lot, but ultimately, I find that I can stay more proficient with less time and effort expended with a regular DA/SA P226 and P239, so I went that route.

In doing some dry fire just the other day, and paying very close attention to things having recently become very frustrated by shooting left, I noticed this as well. The problem, for me, was made worse by the addition of Grip Force adapters on my gen 3 guns...the extra distance to the trigger, while not greatly increased, seemed to cause my finger to be more prone to contacting the frame above the trigger (not at the typical spot along the side of the gun). I removed the Grip Force adapters, and find that I am still very prone to be in contact with the frame above the trigger. While it is avoidable, it is nowhere near "normal" feeling...yet. It is making me strongly consider a platform change.... ETA: I'm assuming this is something I can probably get past with enough repetitions, but the fact that I can pick up a gun I've fondled once and ring steel at 25 yards with relative ease makes me think my efforts may be better invested in improving my capabilities with another platform... Open to thoughts and suggestions, as always...

I noted that I discovered that I was having a similar issue in Post #25 and also theorized that I might not be the only one having this issue. I don't know how you guys interface with Glocks, but I know that I was able to make some small changes to how I gripped the pistol and how I interfaced with the trigger in order to prevent this from happening. It still somewhat of a conscious decision to not push my shots left, but it seems to be getting easier the more I dry fire my revised technique and seems to be even less of an issue shooting SHO/WHO.