Not So Blinding Revelation RE Left-Shooting Glock Gen4 G22

[JonInWA]

Ok, so it's not exactly a state secret that Gen4 Glocks have somewhat of a predisposition to shoot to the left. In the case of my personal G22, it was by a couple of inches, so I had the rear sight drifted almost to the edge of the slide in the sight trough. Benching established problem resolved.

Or so I thought. Subsequent shooting again asserted slightly to the left (about an inch or less) POI, with a center-hold POA. A bit frustrated, and with a imited amount of remaining slide sight track trough remaining, I decided to step back and re-think/readdress the issue.

Four possibilities came to my mind:

1) Some esoteric mechanical/tolerancing issue with the gun (hardware issue);

2) Ammunition compatibility;

3) Operator issue (AKA the Nut Behind The Wheel) (Software issue).

4) Sight issue (more sight drift or sight replacement needed) (Hardware)

Of the causal factors, ammunition was pretty much immediately eliminated-the cartridges used were the same with my HK VP40.

To sort out the issue, I went to the range with some decent 180 gr genaric standard-pressure factory ball ammunition (Blazer Brass). Starting with 8" black targets at 7-10 yards, I immediately noticed that while most were in the black, those not were the result of improper trigger pull/control...this was a major clue....

I then switched to much SMALLER targets, at a similar distance. The problem vanished-virtually all shots were dead center, in a 1" to 1.5" tight group.

CONCLUSION: Yep, it was the Nut Behind The Wheel; Operator error/technique. Shooting the smaller targets forced me to really concentrate on both sight picture and proper triggerpull technique.
Amazingly enough, when I did so, the G22 was splendidly accurate, showing every bit as much potential as my HK VP40. And I really like the quality of the triggerpull with the OEM "dot connector and OWM coil trigger spring, which provides a nice, crisp and discernible two-stage triggerpull with a clean release. The sights are indeed properly set up on my G22 (and, incidentally, are Glock Steels, at least for the time being and foreseeable future, as they provide a perfectly adequate picture for defensive use, IDPA and GSSF). And yes, the gun DOES inherently have a predilection for shooting toward the left, but rear sight drifting has sufficiently resolved it, to where a center hold POA/POI is achievable without the rear sight needing to be drifted beyoondd the slide sight trough. As I discussed in a previous thread here, the Gen4 G22 is unlikely to be shot a huge amount, as it's mostly a backup in case of another 9mm ammunition shortage, as well as for occasional use in carry and IDPA.

I'm currently running it without additional backstraps, as I've empirically discovered that I index and shoot the best with it that way, after objectively testing will all the backstrap options. I've added a Pierce Gen4 specific butt-plug, and replaced the OEM flat slide stop/release with the Glock extended slide stop/release.

Lubrication is with Weapon Shield for general lubrication, and Lucas Red and Tacky #2 grease for slide/receiver rails and rail interface surfaces, the triggerbar/connector interface areas, barrel exterior and muzzle bushing, locking block/barrel lug interface areas, and inner slide bump-out area that interfaces with the triggerbar's vertical extension. As forum member Clobbersaurus discovered and has discussed (and converted at least me to its use) it's an excellent non-migrating and long lasting lubricant-a particularly good choice for a pistol that may see significant stretches of non-use other than dryfire practice.

Best, Jon

[sierra 223]

For me both my 17 and 19 shoot 1-2 inches left at 5-7 yds. This is with the sights pushed almost all the way to the right as you have described yours.

My son who is also right handed shoots about 1 inch to the right at this same distance.

This tells me that with my pistols that it is me.

The bad thing is that I still have not figured out the solution so that I can center up my sights.

[JHC]

Funny thing. I have some Glocks that have sat in my safe a LONG time without being shot. They were trusted back ups/spares. This year I've broken a few of them out and shot them a good bit. This coming after months of disciplined 150 aggregate as a warm up.

Now I'd noticed that the main shooting Glocks I'd been shooting this year had their rear sights centered. But those older ones must be the left shooters right?

Each of the drifted to the right (rear sights) I dug out of the safe this year - impacted to the right now and I had to center them to shoot center. Rhut rhoo.

[JonInWA]

I'm thinking that a lot of what's happening has to do with a combination of how an individually physiologically indexes to a specific Glock (or other guns-but we're talking Glock here), and how well an individual is in terms of both understanding, mastering, and applying the fundamentals of sight acquisition, sight maintenance, and trigger control and pull.

There are some Glocks (and other guns) that I seem to very naturally index with (my Gen 3 G17 comes quickly to mind, as well as my Gen 3 G19s and G34), and others that require more deliberate focus and concentration-such as, for me, my Gen 3 G21, and the Gen4 G22.. That doesn't make the G21 or G22 "bad" or undesirable Glocks-but it does put me on watch to either really ramp up my practice and use of them, and/or to be more deliberate in my shooting of them.

If they were a duty gun, I'd by necessity spend significant amounts of time with them. But they're not, and I have the luxury of choice (perhaps too much luxury...), so I'll do a combination of analysis/dryfire/livefire and some dedicated usage periods during the year.

I'm realizing the value of practice and selection/use discipline-the reality is, there are too many good options at my disposal, and not enough time to equitably spread the use/dedication wealth. So I can be a bit of a dilettante and continue platform-hopping, or invoke a more disciplined approach, which is in fact what I've become gradually more oriented towards.

But there's always distractions.....

Best, Jon

[Artemas2]

I'm thinking that a lot of what's happening has to do with a combination of how an individually physiologically indexes to a specific Glock (or other guns-but we're talking Glock here), and how well an individual is in terms of both understanding, mastering, and applying the fundamentals of sight acquisition, sight maintenance, and trigger control and pull.

There are some Glocks (and other guns) that I seem to very naturally index with (my Gen 3 G17 comes quickly to mind, as well as my Gen 3 G19s and G34), and others that require more deliberate focus and concentration-such as, for me, my Gen 3 G21, and the Gen4 G22.. That doesn't make the G21 or G22 "bad" or undesirable Glocks-but it does put me on watch to either really ramp up my practice and use of them, and/or to be more deliberate in my shooting of them.

If they were a duty gun, I'd by necessity spend significant amounts of time with them. But they're not, and I have the luxury of choice (perhaps too much luxury...), so I'll do a combination of analysis/dryfire/livefire and some dedicated usage periods during the year.

I'm realizing the value of practice and selection/use discipline-the reality is, there are too many good options at my disposal, and not enough time to equitably spread the use/dedication wealth. So I can be a bit of a dilettante and continue platform-hopping, or invoke a more disciplined approach, which is in fact what I've become gradually more oriented towards.

But there's always distractions.....

Best, Jon

My index from the draw on 9/40 frame glocks always has the front sight touching the left side of the rear notch. I also tend to roll the gun to the left in my hand as I pull the trigger. I don't know if it is because of some Glock-to-hand physical issues or my own bad habits (the latter being more likely). 1911s, sigs, HKs all index just fine for me even though I don't use them often.

I have found dot over dot type sights to be a helpful training aid by letting me know that my alignment is crap. I tend to be more accurate at matches on the guns with straights 8's than traditional 3 dot sights.

[Nephrology]

I have 3 Gen 4 Glocks; a 35, 19, and 17.

Of the 3, only the 17 required a slightly left-of-normal position in the dovetail to put shots at proper windage at 25yd. 19 and 35 both required a little adjustment but are visually pretty much dead center. Elevation is still kind of a work in progress...

Either way I find with Glocks that 99% of the time its a software thing. They require a lot of focus to execute perfectly, and ironically, often in my hands shoot dead center best when I am running through a course of fire and just not thinking about it. My Gen 3 guns still exhibit some leftward drift during slow fire that "magically" disappears when the buzzer goes off...

[sierra 223]

I agree with you that when doing combat style shooting my shots are more centered.

I also agree with the response from Artemas, I sometimes lean my front sight to the left if not careful.

I would love to hear if any of you know what you did that cured your left shooting issues other than shifting rear sight to the right.

[scw2]

I would love to hear if any of you know what you did that cured your left shooting issues other than shifting rear sight to the right.

I think it was ASH that mentioned a great way to test the grip is to just relax and contract your grip, and if it's neutral the sights should stay aligned. If not, you'll see a bias as you change your grip tension. I found out my issue was that I was not gripping the gun in a neutral way such that pressure is 'neutral' front-to-back, and instead getting some leftward push on the front half of the gun. Sinking my fingers of the strong hand further around the grip helped. Big caveat that I've been shooting a CZ and not a Glock, so other factors may be at play here for you on a Glock, but maybe worth doing a quick test in dry fire.

[lwt16]

I'll never forget the first time I fired my brand new Gen 4 G17.

I was at the PD department firing range and couldn't hit a steel plate at 25 yards to save my life. Found myself actually looking at the gun like there was something wrong with it. Got our sight pusher and pushed the rear over so much it looked goofy. My groups were a foot left of what I was aiming at.

Went home and thought things through. Instead of running it without a backstrap, I installed the medium backstrap in it and went back the next day.

Groups came over to just a little off to the left.

Slapped a set of Talons on there and the groups came to dead center.

For me, if the grip is not thick enough, it puts my trigger finger at the wrong spot on the trigger and forces the shots left. With the back strap and the Talons, it must put it just right for my hand.

It took me a really long time to get my issued M&P 9 to not print left. That trigger breaks so far back that my finger/grip pushes all shots to the left unless I focus and pull that trigger straight back with even grip pressure as tight as possible. Dry firing a thousand times helped tremendously on the M&P.

My G43 and G42 are hard to not push left also. I have large hands so I am sure that doesn't help things.

Putting better sights on my G17 Gen 4 was a huge help too. I ran that gun in a shooting school earlier this year and it was a beast. I basically couldn't miss no matter how rapid I was shooting and at all distances.

[Lomshek]

I would love to hear if any of you know what you did that cured your left shooting issues other than shifting rear sight to the right.

Buy a bag of 50 of these dummy rounds for less than $25. They'll eventually wear out but last plenty long to be worth the money and are high visibility so you can easily find them on the ground.

Load a magazine with a random mix of live and dummy rounds. Initially use 2/3 dummy to 1/3 live rounds so that you get lots of clicks for more feedback on what you're doing wrong. As you improve you can flip the ratio.

Practice on big and small targets close and far away so you're not just training for one kind of target.

Do some shooting for tight groups and some basic drills like draw and fire 2; draw, fire one, reload, fire one; target transitions and even running to a shooting position then engaging the target. Besides very obvious feedback on grip and trigger errors you'll get lots of practice at Tap, Rack, Bang.

Make adjustments to grip and trigger contact until you find the right set up for you.

You may only fire 50 live rounds in a 2 hour session but your feedback will be greatly enhanced and you'll quickly be drifting the sights back to center.