Scout rifle, circa 2016

[JRB]

Hi all,

Rather than start a whole new thread I thought I'd add on to this one. In the year 2020 for someone's first (and likely only) general-purpose, practical bolt action rifle, would you recommend .308 Win or 6.5 CM?. The goal of the rifle is to be able to accurately engage targets from 0-500 yards max (200-300 yards would be more common). At 500 yards, being able to hit a 12" steel plate with regularity would be ideal. I do not hunt, nor am I a PRS shooter. I'd simply like to build my marksmanship skills and have a versatile, non-semi-auto rifle. I estimate the rifle would be shot perhaps 250-350 rounds per year, and maybe 20-25 shots per range visit.

Thanks for your time.

Chris

I'd recommend that you ask yourself what's the next step beyond the 200-300 yard game and 12in plates.

If you think the itch might need more scratching, and you'll want to challenge yourself with longer distances and smaller targets - 6.5CM is the way. It offers a ton of advantages in accuracy and good precision ammo availability (panics excluded) as well as somewhat reduced recoil. If you're going to push yourself and your skill as it grows, you'll get a lot more efficacy for a given skill level using 6.5CM. I will say that it is VERY satisfying to hit steel at 800+ yards and the only reason I don't already own a 6.5CM is because I've got so many other .308's.

If you think you're going to just love the 200-300 yard life and clanging the same steel over and over again, forever, or your situation/range availability precludes longer ranges or smaller/more interesting targets, then wider availability and generally lower cost of blaster-grade .308 (again, panics excluded) is worth considering instead.

Wildcard option - if you really want to build your marksmanship skills and learn how to read wind and play all those rifle marksmanship games, consider instead a Ruger Precision Rifle in .22LR, and learn to call wind at 150-200yd with that .22. It's fun, inexpensive, easily suppressed, and fun for literally anyone physically large enough to get a proper firing position behind it. It's also substantially less overall cost to 'get in to' than .308 or 6.5CM. Better still, you will NEVER have a problem selling a .22LR RPR and getting a good chunk of your money back for it, should you decide you don't like it.

[okie john]

Rather than start a whole new thread I thought I'd add on to this one. In the year 2020 for someone's first (and likely only) general-purpose, practical bolt action rifle, would you recommend .308 Win or 6.5 CM?. The goal of the rifle is to be able to accurately engage targets from 0-500 yards max (200-300 yards would be more common). At 500 yards, being able to hit a 12" steel plate with regularity would be ideal. I do not hunt, nor am I a PRS shooter. I'd simply like to build my marksmanship skills and have a versatile, non-semi-auto rifle. I estimate the rifle would be shot perhaps 250-350 rounds per year, and maybe 20-25 shots per range visit.

Honestly, flip a coin if you’re not going to hunt. 12" at 500 is 2.4 MOA, and that's not hard to achieve. 308 used to win the logistics argument but the ammo makers have made the 6.5 Creedmoor almost as common.

If you might start hunting, then go 308 (for the edge in versatility) within these parameters:

Both of those rifles are good choices. I’d also look at the Remington M-700, the Tikka T3x, the Winchester M-70, and the Ruger M-77 Hawkeye at a minimum.

Avoid ultra-light rifles for a first-time hunter. They can be hard to shoot well and they kick harder than slightly heavier rifles. Eight pounds loaded, scoped, and with a sling is a very good place to be.

Choose a common cartridge: 30-06, 308, 270, or 7mm RM. All will take deer and elk, blast and recoil aren’t bad, and they’re among the last to run out when times get weird like they are now. They’re also not expensive, which matters since he’ll spend more on ammo than on the rifle in the long run. Barrel length should be between 22” and 24”.

Definitely go stainless/synthetic, especially if he hunts where it rains much. Factory synthetic stocks are better than you’d think, and paying the upcharge for a Bell & Carlson or HS Precision stock from the factory is not a bad call either. If he plans to upgrade to a top-drawer Bansner or McMillan later on, then definitely get the cheap factory stock for now.

Add a good 2.5-8 or 3-9 variable with an objective bell smaller than about 45mm in field-detachable mounts, zero it at 200 yards with the heaviest bullet that the chosen cartridge will move at 2,700 fps, and go forth.

A rifle like that will handle 99% of all game in North America, won't kick his teeth out in training, and will be easy to feed. He can add specialized rifles later, but those are best tied to a specific species or set of conditions so he should get a few hunts under his belt before going down that road.

On a completely separate note, he needs to get into a Hunter's Safety Course NOW if he hasn't already done so. He won't be able to buy a license without it, and they fill quickly.

Okie John

[Totem Polar]

I’m no expert. With that caveat, the only point that I do not believe Has been covered is that 6.5CM tends to be a lower recoil round in light rifles with commonly available loads. FWIW.

[OlongJohnson]

At this point, for a "one bolt action rifle" program, I'd pick up a Tikka in 6.5 CM. The local Academy still had CM on the shelves when they were nearly barren.

Your "one more bolt action rifle" program then can naturally include a T1x, so the stock is identical to your "big" rifle.

[Wondering Beard]

Doesn't the 6.5CM "eat up" barrels at a much faster rate than the 308?

I think I read that somewhere but since I don't use that type of rifle, I have no clue.

[msstate56]

Doesn't the 6.5CM "eat up" barrels at a much faster rate than the 308?

I think I read that somewhere but since I don't use that type of rifle, I have no clue.

Sure, 6.5 CM (~3,000-4,000) has a shorter barrel life as compared to .308 Win (~8,000-10,000). But 6.5 is a much better "light" rifle cartridge. It's proven that is can take game out to, and arguably farther than .308. 6.5 CM soundly beats .308 at long range as well, with less recoil. Barrel life is held in too high of importance in my opinion. It takes over $3,000 in ammo to wear out a 6.5 CM barrel. $600 for a new barrel is the cheap part. Barrels wear out, big deal, replace as necessary.

[Rick R]

I was in two gun stores today. Both had some flavor of .308 ammo, neither had a round of 6.5CM (or 9mm or 5.56).
The reason “Scout” rifles are usually .308 is ammo availability.

6.5CM may be a “better” round but try to find some in Hoedspruit RSA when the airline sent your luggage and ammo to the wrong corner of the planet but your rifle case showed up.

[OdinIII]

I’d stick with .308 to take advantage of generally cheaper and more available ammo.

[OlongJohnson]

I was in two gun stores today. Both had some flavor of .308 ammo, neither had a round of 6.5CM (or 9mm or 5.56).
The reason “Scout” rifles are usually .308 is ammo availability.

6.5CM may be a “better” round but try to find some in Hoedspruit RSA when the airline sent your luggage and ammo to the wrong corner of the planet but your rifle case showed up.

Or have one Tikka in each chambering...

[msstate56]

I’ll take a better performing, and very commonly available cartridge, over some crazy “what if” scenario. I haven’t seen 9x19 in stock anywhere for a while. Should I ditch it and pick a different caliber? If your ammo needs are classified as “I grab a box from Walmart right before hunting season,” then go ahead and pick whatever caliber you want.

I still have a .308 bolt and gas gun. Neither have been fired in 2 years. All I shoot these days is 6.5 CM or .30 cal magnums.

For the above question- 12” plate at 500 yards. If you get a decent rifle and scope, you’ll soon get bored and want to go further. .308 just plain sucks beyond 800 yards. 6.5 CM still gets me good hits out to 1200.