Scout rifle, circa 2016

[MistWolf]

I'm not, nor do I have any interest in being, a hand loader or "rifle guy", so for me personally anything that's not .22, 9mm, .223, .308, or 12ga constitute "snowflake" calibers. I'm aware that lots of people have lots of reasons for lots of this or that, I just don't and frankly I think most of them are at best diminishing returns for your "average gun owner" like me.

Using this criteria, whichever rifle you choose, it must be 308.

I don't agree, but I don't disagree enough to care about arguing the point. use matters, and I've watched more than a few push feed guns have feed issues when fired rapidly and in dynamic drills. For your typical "rifle guy" hunter those issues will likely never present. At this point, however, it appears that to get what I want I'll have to sacrifice at least one criteria, and this one will probably be it.

Because my father believed his children should know the fundamentals of riflery, I got practice running bolt actions hard, both controlled and push feed. To keep this short, the most important thing to remember about running a push feed is be smooth and fast and don't "double clutch". That is, don't shirt stroke the bolt or you'll be clearing a double feed, something you don't want to have to do with a Remington 700 action. Run a good push feed action smooth and fast and it will feed reliably every time, even upside down. What does this mean to the conversation? If you found two rifles that you like very much, but the only difference being caliber and feed type, which would you choose? A controlled feed rifle in 7mm-08, or the push feed in 308?

plus, since I want fixed irons, it becomes even more of a cost issue if the gun doesn't come that way.

All I'm asking for is fixed barrel-mounted sights. I don't need anything elegant.

The truth is, most factory supplied barrel mounted rear sights on bolt action rifles are almost useless. It doesn't hurt anything to have them, but they tend to be fragile and compared to a receiver mounted aperture sight, the sight radius is quite short and the sight picture is not as good. This isn't to say you should skip the iron sights, but weigh them honestly. If you found two rifles you like that were identical except one was controlled feed with no iron sights and the other was a push feed with iron sights, which would you choose? Or, if there were two identical rifles, except one had iron sights and was $100 more than the the other without iron sights, which would you choose?

In the end, you have to weigh it out. Do you compromise on one of your criteria to get a rifle under budget? Do you compromise to buy something now to get started shooting, or do you wait until you find the perfect rifle?

I think a good solution would be to look for one of the newer Winchester Model 70s with the push feed action. I believe some were made with factory installed iron sights. I don't know if that configuration was offered with an 18 inch barrel, but if not, you can have a gunsmith cut the barrel and reinstall the front sight. Of course that adds to cost and only you can decide if it's worth the expense and trouble.

Nothing in my list above should be considered "scout" but more of "practical rifle", which is the direction this thread has drifted many times.

Gotcha

[rob_s]

Because my father believed his children should know the fundamentals of riflery, I got practice running bolt actions hard, both controlled and push feed. To keep this short, the most important thing to remember about running a push feed is be smooth and fast and don't "double clutch". That is, don't shirt stroke the bolt or you'll be clearing a double feed, something you don't want to have to do with a Remington 700 action. Run a good push feed action smooth and fast and it will feed reliably every time, even upside down.

I view this a lot like I view the pump-action shotgun debate. If run properly, it's a non issue. The issue arises when we add stress, weird shooting positions, stress, etc.

What does this mean to the conversation? If you found two rifles that you like very much, but the only difference being caliber and feed type, which would you choose? A controlled feed rifle in 7mm-08, or the push feed in 308?[/quote]
the .308

The truth is, most factory supplied barrel mounted rear sights on bolt action rifles are almost useless. It doesn't hurt anything to have them, but they tend to be fragile and compared to a receiver mounted aperture sight, the sight radius is quite short and the sight picture is not as good. This isn't to say you should skip the iron sights, but weigh them honestly.

I get all of that, but I still want them. Knowing that this rifle will likely rarely leave the safe, i'm unconcerned about relative precision or fragility.

If you found two rifles you like that were identical except one was controlled feed with no iron sights and the other was a push feed with iron sights, which would you choose? Or, if there were two identical rifles, except one had iron sights and was $100 more than the the other without iron sights, which would you choose?

I can buy a brand new Model 70 that is ideal to me except for the sights and threading, but since I don't do that I suppose I'm choosing the sights.

In the end, you have to weigh it out. Do you compromise on one of your criteria to get a rifle under budget? Do you compromise to buy something now to get started shooting, or do you wait until you find the perfect rifle?

well, duh. The whole point of this discussion is that *my* ideal right doesn't exist right now.

I think a good solution would be to look for one of the newer Winchester Model 70s with the push feed action. I believe some were made with factory installed iron sights. I don't know if that configuration was offered with an 18 inch barrel, but if not, you can have a gunsmith cut the barrel and reinstall the front sight. Of course that adds to cost and only you can decide if it's worth the expense and trouble.

I believe current model 70s are controlled-feed, no? I had a featherweight compact that was, anyway. I've seen a few used ones come up for sale with irons, but then they aren't threaded. I've thought about buying a featherweight and having the barrel cut, threaded, sights installed... The cost of fiddle fuck either way is high enough that I'm not interested.

At the end of the day, it's not important enough for me to have a bolt-action rifle that doesn't tick my boxes. once one shows up that does, then I'll buy it.

[NH Shooter]

Huh....

Nothing new but I've spent some time researching this one. The consensus is that they are well made, durable, lightweight and accurate;




The hunter model above is available in .243, .308 and .338 Federal. Several models are available in .223/5.56 as well, this one the National model with folding stock, which weighs 6-pounds, 11-ounces as shown;




All take standard AR-10/15 magazines. Triggers are also standard AR parts, so upgrades are easy (Geissele SSA for me). And as Rob_S likes to say "no fiddle-fucking" required - install your favorite AR sights and/or optic, grab a few AR magazines and you're GtG.

I could definitely see one of these sitting in my safe and based on what I now know, might prefer it over a bolt gun.

[mtnbkr]

I've been toying with the idea of a Ruger American Predator as a Scoutish rifle. It's lightweight, compact (18" barrel), threaded for the muzzle device of your choice, and uses AI pattern mags. The 1:10 barrel should shoot 180gr 308s well and do passably with 200gr loads, especially if they're RN bullets. It lacks iron sights, but I'm starting to think a durable red dot sight might be just as good. A pre-sighted scope on QR rings and a red dot might be a good combo. IME, scopes that are removed and reinstalled tend to keep zero close enough for hunting purposes. I've seen these rifles for as little as $350 at gun shows.

The self-built Savage HH 308 I've mentioned in this thread is a great gun at the range, but weighs too much for my tastes in the field (I hunt in the mountains). This Ruger has all the features of my Savage except the iron sights. Though the Ruger's lightweight barrel probably would perform as well over long range sessions...

Chris

[NH Shooter]

At the risk of diverting the thread, I'm going to jump on the current theme of MSR/AR-pattern really being the answer to this unless legality prohibits you. If you're in a free state, I see no value to trying to do the scout rifle thing on a bolt-gun. Further, unless you live in a dangerous game place, I don't even see the value of going beyond .223.

I've arrived at the same conclusion.

That said, I can't take it with me to NY when we visit family, and where we often go to a local range for some recreational shooting. Not only can't I take the AR, but I can't take any handguns either, so I'm limited to either my 14-pound precision bolt gun or a .22 LR.

I'm really considering picking up a Troy Pump Action Rifle: National for this purpose. At 6-pounds/11-ounces and with the folding stock, I can fit it inconspicuously in my travel duffel making it easy to bring along. I'd install a Geissele SSA trigger, pick up a few 10-round magazines and it would be 100% NY good-to-go.

[peterb]

I'm really considering picking up a Troy Pump Action Rifle: National for this purpose. At 6-pounds/11-ounces and with the folding stock, I can fit it inconspicuously in my travel duffel making it easy to bring along. I'd install a Geissele SSA trigger, pick up a few 10-round magazines and it would be 100% NY good-to-go.

How are the erogonomics running a pump rifle prone?

[NH Shooter]

How are the erogonomics running a pump rifle prone?

Never tried, but I would think a distinct pain-in-the-nuts. For standing, sitting or kneeling maybe not so much.

One thing for certain, nothing is going to beat a semi-auto in this regard.

[Chuck Whitlock]

The main advantage of the 1-piece mount is that when installed stress-free, it ensures alignment of the rings.
I too like the cleaner look of 2-piece mounts, but IMO a bedded 1-piece mount is stronger and provides a perfectly-true base for the rings to mount to.

For me it's more about accessing the bolt/chamber for top-loading and clearance of malfunctions (which, from what I've seen, are more common in a push-feed so even more critical in the case of the Mossberg).

yep, which is why I want that dumb rail off the Mossberg an in the garbage bin where it belongs

I would think that Ruger's integral bases would be a plus in this regard.

I've been toying with the idea of a Ruger American Predator as a Scoutish rifle. It's lightweight, compact (18" barrel), threaded for the muzzle device of your choice, and uses AI pattern mags. The 1:10 barrel should shoot 180gr 308s well and do passably with 200gr loads, especially if they're RN bullets. It lacks iron sights, but I'm starting to think a durable red dot sight might be just as good. A pre-sighted scope on QR rings and a red dot might be a good combo. IME, scopes that are removed and reinstalled tend to keep zero close enough for hunting purposes. I've seen these rifles for as little as $350 at gun shows.

This is intriguing.

Ruger also sells 2-piece bases and 12.5" LOP stocks, if you like.

http://shopruger.com/Ruger-American-...ducts/2100/1/0

[Chuck Whitlock]

plus, since I want fixed irons, it becomes even more of a cost issue if the gun doesn't come that way.

All I'm asking for is fixed barrel-mounted sights. I don't need anything elegant.

I don't know that anyone makes one, but it would seem relatively easy to make a rear sight that mounts to the forward pic rail on the Ruger GSR with the scope mounted conventionally.

[okie john]

I’ve read this thread from the beginning and have really learned a lot. I’m looking for input/suggestions for a more “practical rifle” build. I currently hunt whitetail but am planning some trips to Colorado and the Midwest to hunt game as well.
My current plan is a tikka t3x lite compact in 308. I don’t shoot past 400 for whitetail so I’m looking at a leupold 2-7 or 2.5-10 in Talley rings.
Do those with experience think this rifle would work for Colorado and Midwest size game out to 400 yards or so? My ammo of choice is federal fusion which works well for whitetail.
Any input is greatly appreciated.

Should be fine. The Compact has a 12.5” LOP and a 20” barrel. The T3x has a 23.6” barrel, which I’d prefer for longer shots.


Okie John