Scout rifle, circa 2016

[StraitR]

Thanks @fatdog. I'm coming to the same conclusion, in which I'm not really after a true "practical rifle" as it's been defined here. I've also just been given the opportunity to shoot out to 1000y regularly, which is not possible here outside of private property or a 3 hour drive. Lack of accessibility to long range shooting facilities is why I've never bothered getting into the precision game. This opportunity changes things for me, as far as opening up a caliber debate, so I'm now reading up on the benefits of 6.5 creedmoor vs 308. What a rabbit hole that is.

Did you get the 20" or 24" CTR in 6.5 creedmoor?

[Lost River]

One thing to bear in mind when talking about Tikkas (The modern T3 variant at least) and long range is that they are all built on long actions. People will start talking about how the 6.5 creed is far superior than the .308, but that is really from a limited perspective. When you are shooting factory ammo and speaking in generalities, the 6.5 Creed does offer better downrange performance for target shooting.

However for a handloader you can really educate some people. Take a .308 top it with a 208 Amax or a 212 ELD X and you have a whole other animal. Plus another very simple trick is to swap your 308 magazine for a 30-06 magazine, and long load your 308, so you are not hampered by the box magazines internal dimensions.



Example:

The factory G1 BC of the .308 212 ELD is .673

The factory G1 BC of the .308 210 Sierra MK is .645



Their (Hornady's) very best 6.5 mm projectile is only .625

A Sierra Matchking from a Creedmoor is only going to get you in the low .6s


Yes you have to reload. The other tradeoff is that there will be more recoil with the .308 loads. However with a muzzle brake, this really is not a big deal to most.


As someone who own both a 6.5 and a 308 ( my 6.5 is a 260 Rem ) I have found the 308 to be a better all around cartridge (for my needs).

For a guy who just wants to buy of the shelf ammo though, the Creedmoor has a lot of things going right for it.


One thing to add, a friend this last weekend gave me a box of the new Gold Medal Match .308 ammo. It is loaded with Bergers 185 grain Juggernaught bullet at 2600 FPS and has a G1 of .555. For factory .308 ammo thats pretty impressive. I shot this stuff last year at a demo shoot but not in my own gun, so I am really looking forward to seeing how it does in Tikkas and a Sako TRG.

Personally I would much rather hit my target with a heavier bullet than a lighter one.


For a guy who just wants one rifle, I would still recommend a .308 over a 6.5. The ability to load projectiles suitable for varmints all the way up to the biggest bears as well as do some long range target shooting, with proper handloading, makes it a solid choice.

CHEERS

[okie john]

One thing to add, a friend this last weekend gave me a box of the new Gold Medal Match .308 ammo. It is loaded with Bergers 185 grain Juggernaught bullet at 2600 FPS and has a G1 of .555. For factory .308 ammo thats pretty impressive.

A lot of 180-grain factory 30-06 ammo only goes that fast, and some of it is even slower: Federal's 180-grain Partition load gave 2,551 fps in a 22" Husqvarna (1:12 twist) and 2,583 fps in a 24" FN with (1:10 twist).


Okie John

[nycnoob]

Lost River,

Why are you quoting G1 BC? Is this just out of habits of a lifetime?

It is my understanding that when talking about longer projectiles and longer distances,
the G7 BC numbers are more stable over a wide range of projectile velocities and are more
useful for comparing projectiles and developing ballistics charts.

Of course I have no experience with this. I just read the Litz books and took his seminar
So my knowledge is all theoretical.

[Lost River]

Lost River,

Why are you quoting G1 BC? Is this just out of habits of a lifetime?

It is my understanding that when talking about longer projectiles and longer distances,
the G7 BC numbers are more stable over a wide range of projectile velocities and are more
useful for comparing projectiles and developing ballistics charts.

Of course I have no experience with this. I just read the Litz books and took his seminar
So my knowledge is all theoretical.

You are 100% spot on.

I am always willing to adapt to pick up new skill sets but for the nature of what I do, it works for me. I have not been nearly as active doing long range shooting like I was even just 10 years ago, and I have not kept up. LOTS of things have advanced considerably in that time frame due to PRS and technology, etc.

Without question Litz is the subject matter expert, and I myself would love to sit in on a couple of his classes and update myself on what is happening on the cutting edge of the science. It is truly amazing what guys can do now with traditional cartridges like the 30-06 and 7mm Rem Mag that 20 years ago many would have thought impossible.

[nycnoob]

Lost River,

If you get a chance to take the Litz course, it is just great, though it is all class room lecture
and some discussion break out sessions. There were lots of heavy hitters in the audiance
(army marksmanship team, operators, F-class competitors, really serious hobbyists). The
facilities were nice (its a religious retreat) though they had a no guns allowed policy. However
the lectures were mostly from the books, if you read the books you are getting at least 80%
of the class.

[Lost River]

A lot of 180-grain factory 30-06 ammo only goes that fast, and some of it is even slower: Federal's 180-grain Partition load gave 2,551 fps in a 22" Husqvarna (1:12 twist) and 2,583 fps in a 24" FN with (1:10 twist).


Okie John

Okie John,

Again if a guy is a handloader, he could make a strong argument for the 30-06. I shoot .308 and .300wm as my 2 primary hunting cartridges for big game but really with a properly set up rifle that allowed you to not be limited by internal dimensions of many box mags, a guy could easily make a case for shooting the 30-06 for everything. I am sure you have read what Shane aka Montana Marine has done with his 30-06s, taking them to a mile and sometimes beyond. The old 30-06 has never had it so good as it does now, but again it requires handloading due to all the anemic factory ammo out there.

That 24" barreled FN could be lots of fun. I have seriously considered building a long barreled -06 more than a few times, but I don't feel like I shoot the big guns that I have right now nearly enough to justify building another long range gun. Heck I have a .300WM chassis gun that still needs load development done on it and I don't think thats going to happen this year.

[okie john]

Okie John,

Again if a guy is a handloader, he could make a strong argument for the 30-06. I shoot .308 and .300wm as my 2 primary hunting cartridges for big game but really with a properly set up rifle that allowed you to not be limited by internal dimensions of many box mags, a guy could easily make a case for shooting the 30-06 for everything. I am sure you have read what Shane aka Montana Marine has done with his 30-06s, taking them to a mile and sometimes beyond. The old 30-06 has never had it so good as it does now, but again it requires handloading due to all the anemic factory ammo out there.

That 24" barreled FN could be lots of fun. I have seriously considered building a long barreled -06 more than a few times, but I don't feel like I shoot the big guns that I have right now nearly enough to justify building another long range gun. Heck I have a .300WM chassis gun that still needs load development done on it and I don't think thats going to happen this year.

I agree 100% on the 30-06’s potential with handloads. My loading gear is in storage at the moment, but that will change early next year. I’ve gotten a couple of mine up to 2,750 fps with 180-grain Partitions and several powders, and could probably go faster with newer powders. That’s about like a 300 H&H or WM factory load of 15-20 years ago. The funny thing is that Teddy Roosevelt started the 30-06’s reputation when he shot up a bunch of African plains game with 150-grain FMJs at 2,700 fps in 1909. That’s a mild 308 load these days.

Shane is doing good work. I’d love to do some of the same, but a 200-yard range is a rarity in western Washington and I’d have to drive several hours to a place where I could practice that far out and remember how to read wind.

The FN was a grail rifle for me. I found one that someone had “ruined” by glass bedding the action, free floating the barrel, and working the factory trigger to perfection. It put Winchester’s cheap 180-grain Power Point load into 1 MOA, but it pours rain around here during hunting season and I felt guilty about taking it out.



A few months ago, I upgraded to a stainless 24” 30-06 Model 70 Classic in a Bansner stock that I rescued from a pawn shop.



Not nearly as elegant, but I don’t have to worry about getting it wet.

Good to see you back, amigo.


Okie John

[Lost River]

I agree 100% on the 30-06’s potential with handloads. My loading gear is in storage at the moment, but that will change early next year. I’ve gotten a couple of mine up to 2,750 fps with 180-grain Partitions and several powders, and could probably go faster with newer powders. That’s about like a 300 H&H or WM factory load of 15-20 years ago. The funny thing is that Teddy Roosevelt started the 30-06’s reputation when he shot up a bunch of African plains game with 150-grain FMJs at 2,700 fps in 1909. That’s a mild 308 load these days.

Shane is doing good work. I’d love to do some of the same, but a 200-yard range is a rarity in western Washington and I’d have to drive several hours to a place where I could practice that far out and remember how to read wind.

The FN was a grail rifle for me. I found one that someone had “ruined” by glass bedding the action, free floating the barrel, and working the factory trigger to perfection. It put Winchester’s cheap 180-grain Power Point load into 1 MOA, but it pours rain around here during hunting season and I felt guilty about taking it out.



A few months ago, I upgraded to a stainless 24” 30-06 Model 70 Classic in a Bansner stock that I rescued from a pawn shop.



Not nearly as elegant, but I don’t have to worry about getting it wet.

Good to see you back, amigo.


Okie John

Those two are smoking nice -06s!

That Winchester in the Bansner would be a perfect Cascades rifle (I would imagine).

I have an old JC Higgins FN Mauser that I recently put in a laminate stock. I really like the rifle, it needs to get finished up with a bedding, free floating and some proper glass on it. I am leaning towards a fixed 10X SWFA. Out here in the wild west, it works. On the wet side of the Cascades, I would probably go with a fixed 6X, depending on exactly where I hunted primarily.


For S&Gs I temporarily stuck my daughters fixed 6X on the FN Mauser to get an idea of proportions. It seemed to be a good match, but I figured the 10X makes more sense for my type of shooting.

[okie john]

Those two are smoking nice -06s!

That Winchester in the Bansner would be a perfect Cascades rifle (I would imagine).

I have an old JC Higgins FN Mauser that I recently put in a laminate stock. I really like the rifle, it needs to get finished up with a bedding, free floating and some proper glass on it. I am leaning towards a fixed 10X SWFA. Out here in the wild west, it works. On the wet side of the Cascades, I would probably go with a fixed 6X, depending on exactly where I hunted primarily.


For S&Gs I temporarily stuck my daughters fixed 6X on the FN Mauser to get an idea of proportions. It seemed to be a good match, but I figured the 10X makes more sense for my type of shooting.

Thanks for the kind words.

The Winchester may be the perfect Cascades rifle. I wrote the specs for it based on Allen Day’s posts on another forum, and added the illuminated reticle after my Roosevelt elk hunt a couple of years ago. I expected to drop serious coin to get it, but I got it for the proverbial song. I'd like to find or build another one in 338 WM.

The Higgins Mausers are also excellent Cascade rifles because they have chrome-lined bores. I’ve owned several and all were tackdrivers. I may add another one after things in my personal life settle down. Is that a Boyd’s stock? How does it balance? 99% of my shots in the last 15-20 years have been offhand because I hunt in the brush, so I’m all about balance.

This pic doesn’t do the FN justice. The wood has end-to-end tiger striping that doesn’t show up in images. It would be my first choice if I ever had to go hunting in a tuxedo.


Okie John