Just when I thought I was over 1911's.....

[Tango]

I'm not a fan of Herpley-Derpisons. I don't ride my BMW to a bar and tell everyone they bought the wrong bike. I suppose this post is not liking them out loud but you get the idea.


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This ^^^^^^^^. 1911s are fine guns. Glocks are fine guns. I've seen both run and both fail.

Price point is insignificant. Everyone operates on a different budget. Someone who buys a brand new $10K Harley and knows how to ride is no smarter or dumber than a guy who spends $2K on a used Honda and has the same skill level.

1911, Glock, HK.....Know your machine, train with it and maintain it. Get a tool that is reliable, accurate and that you like. If you have those 3 things, you will train and be prepared.

[45dotACP]

I call BS. Hackathorn is a part-time shill for Wilson Combat. My SIG 1911, out of the box, runs just fine.

Oddly, I don't. Yes, a production 1911 can run well out of the box, but to count on that is silly.... although, to count on any gun running out of the box is silly unless you've shot it or tested it a bit. My Glock had some issues with extraction and a horrifying trigger pull, my Beretta wouldn't extract due to gank built up under the hook. Only gun I had that was problem free from day 1 was my most recent .45 build.

Not gonna lie, since bashing them, I actually looked into SIG 1911s and Dave Panciotti with Evolution Armory seems to recommend them highly....him being a smith of some skill whose work I've seen/handled and a former employee at SIG I'm curious now. Seems like a decent bargain.

[DHart]

Oddly, I don't. Yes, a production 1911 can run well out of the box, but to count on that is silly.... although, to count on any gun running out of the box is silly unless you've shot it or tested it a bit. My Glock had some issues with extraction and a horrifying trigger pull, my Beretta wouldn't extract due to gank built up under the hook. Only gun I had that was problem free from day 1 was my most recent .45 build.

Not gonna lie, since bashing them, I actually looked into SIG 1911s and Dave Panciotti with Evolution Armory seems to recommend them highly....him being a smith of some skill whose work I've seen/handled and a former employee at SIG I'm curious now. Seems like a decent bargain.

Dave of Evolution Armory has been regularly bashing SIG, on another forum, for using what he calls crap small parts. In the same threads, there are numerous first hand reports from SIG 1911 owners who are very pleased with their SIG 1911s.

There is no doubt that the 1911 can be a finnicky pistol. I don't believe that they are for "every man". But they are intriguing and beguiling. They sure sucked a massive amount of my time, attention, and money for many years - and I enjoyed that fascination.

But, they are no longer my first choice as defense pistols, as I find the M&P40 and Sig P320 40 with twice the capacity, super reliability, great accuracy, quicker split times, more accurate rapid fire, and economical pricing to be far better choices for a defense pistol. Exponentially so for agency use. Add the simplicity to get into action (no thumb safety to have to disengage) and there is much to be said for the best of the recent striker-fired pistols. Some of them have excellent triggers, as well!

[SLG]

I call BS. Hackathorn is a part-time shill for Wilson Combat. My SIG 1911, out of the box, runs just fine.

I might suggest a slightly more polite way of disagreeing. Hackathorn is a straight shooter, and will tell you the deal, based on his experience. doesn't matter what company he works for. I also happen to know his arrangement with Wilson, and let's just say you're way off base.

Finally, I will point out that while I don't know who you are, Hackathorn has personally been involved and done more for our industry/military/LE, than almost anyone else. So your sample of one Sig runs? Congratulations. I'm a huge Sig fan too, btw.

[Mark]

One more datapoint. I was recently in a one week class, it dealt with issues beyond just pistols so the round count wasn't high, about 1,000 rounds. I ran a Springfield LBO my partner ran a Nighthawk GRP. Both pistols ran without issues. The 2 final days were pretty rainy and long, the guns and mags got allot of exposure to rain and wet grass/mud. My Operator was pretty nasty looking by the final day. It was a smallish class, about 14 guys. There were two guns that suffered stoppages during the class, a Glock 23 had a few extraction/double feed issues and a Glock 21 had a few stove pipes, one instance saw the slide try and close before the last round had fully ejected and it locked in the slide primer facing the chamber. Not sure what the issue was, everyone was running factory ammo. About half the class had Sigs and they didn't have any issues.

The LBO is the cheapest 1911 I own but I'm quite fond of it. It's very smooth in operation and short of benching it I don't see a performance difference with my other guns. It's lacking on the small touches side of things, it's extractor isn't flush with the rear of the slide for example and it has a slight wiggle in the slide/frame fit.......but when it comes time to touch off some rounds it's all business. In a few thousand rounds shooting HST's, Golden Sabers, and Federal ball ammo it has yet to fail to go through its cycle of function as it should. I run Wilson ETM's and the two Mecgar 8 rounders that came with the gun.

While I couldn't gaurantee that all MC/LB Operators will perform this way, you shouldn't put a gun into duty use until you clear 1,000 trouble free rounds anyway. If something does go bad, Springfield will fix it. Really not much risk there.

[Tango]

I was reminded today if one reason why the 1911 continues to be carried 100+ years after entering service. People like the gun. It is a natural feeling tool with everything right where it should be. I had a new shooter today testing several different guns. When she held the 1911, she said, "I like this one the best, it feels right.". It reminded me that MOST people have said the same thing through the years I've been involved in shooting.

[Wobblie]

I might suggest a slightly more polite way of disagreeing. Hackathorn is a straight shooter, and will tell you the deal, based on his experience. doesn't matter what company he works for. I also happen to know his arrangement with Wilson, and let's just say you're way off base.

Finally, I will point out that while I don't know who you are, Hackathorn has personally been involved and done more for our industry/military/LE, than almost anyone else. So your sample of one Sig runs? Congratulations. I'm a huge Sig fan too, btw.

Suggestion noted. "Shill" was uncalled for. I apologize.

[BigT]

Ken will flat out tell you, "I'm a Product Ambassador for Colt". Then Ken will tell you his honest opinion free from any brand limitations.

That is exactly my experience.

[Lost River]

You will very hard pressed to find a nicer, more personable guy in the industry than KH. Over the years I have had the opportunity to spend a bit of time with various industry people, top competition shooters, SMU folks, etc. Interacting with KH is like talking to an old friend. There are a few serious ego maniacs and narcissists in the previously mentioned groups. KH is the complete opposite.

[Sawyer]

I went back and watched the shot show Hackathorn video and the Yeager Hackathorn video and they do appear contradictory. In the shot video he talks glowingly about the Combat Unit pistol and says it's a gun you load, stick in the holster, and do the job. Then toward the end he and Vickers talk about the lightweight commander and again they talk glowingly about it as a CCW gun and site it's usefulness particularly in the role of CCW in states with 10 round mag limits. Then in Yeagers video he talks about how if you buy a 1911 out of the box you're likely to be disappointed. It's hard to square the two statements. Possibly he's talking about 1911's as a whole and thinking more Taurus and Kimber then Springfield and Colt but again, watching the two videos back to back does make you scratch your head a bit.