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Thread: The Warthog stays alive...for now.

  1. #1
    Site Supporter Irelander's Avatar
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    The Warthog stays alive...for now.

    Air Force pushes back A-10 retirement to 2022:
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/22...l?intcmp=hpbt1

    Once again, the deadline for retiring the versatile plane has been pushed back, this time to 2022, when it would be replaced by F-35 Joint Strike Fighters. While the F-35 rollout has been less than smooth, the real reason the Warthog keeps avoiding mothballs is that it is perfect for raining fire down on desert-dwelling Islamic extremists.
    Glad the Warthog lives to fight another day.
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  2. #2
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Why do I get the feeling that by 2022 they'll still be working the bugs out of the F-35?

  3. #3
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    Why do I get the feeling that by 2022 they'll still be working the bugs out of the MHS?
    FIFY.

  4. #4
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_Jenkins View Post
    FIFY.
    That too.

  5. #5
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    I'm hoping by 2022 - They have come to their senses and actually gotten rid of the F-35 program and invested in Specialized platforms that work properly, like the A10. The A10 is an exemplification of what designed a specific platform for specif purposes can gain you. I get it - We don't need SR71 Blackbirds of even F117s anymore. We have satellites and unmanned aerial drones capable of providing considerable support/fulfill the same roles.

    What it seems like we do need - is an aircraft like the A10 that can simultaneously provide close-air support and bomb/rocket/destroy strategic targets. In both roles, the A10 excels as a platform. If the airframe "needs" replacement, it needs to be replaced with another specialized aircraft of the same type and robustness. The trouble with the F35 is the trouble with most "multi-role" aircraft...they don't excel in the roles they end up being used for. Exceptions are things like the C130, A10, U/MH-60 Blackhawk. But what you find in all of those cases - you start with a robust, utilitarian airframe and then modify it, with carefully selected and designed, equipment for specialized purposes. Low and behold, if you build it like it's a lego-brick system that is adaptable - as opposed to a one-stop panacea of solutions, it works better.

    Seems like someone could have told the Air Force that...hmm let's see...that guy Henry Ford seemed to figure that out with the Model T...

    -Rob

  6. #6
    I wish they would just give them to the Marine Corps and watch the fun begin.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by nyeti View Post
    I wish they would just give them to the Marine Corps and watch the fun begin.
    Fun aviation trivia- the Air Force initially didn't want it back in the '70s. When the Pentagon brass considered handing the jets over to the Army , that's when the AF Brass went "hale to the naw" and agreed to the program.

    Insofar as the F35 goes, by the time 2022 rolls around the stealth tech will already be obsolete and the MXS troops will have filed suit against the Pentagon alleging that servicing the F35 constitutes "cruel and unusual punishment". You heard it here first.
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  8. #8
    Member Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GardoneVT View Post
    Insofar as the F35 goes, by the time 2022 rolls around the stealth tech will already be obsolete . . .
    I am wondering when pilots become obsolete. I think we may see a time when pilots are 18 to 25 year olds with extremely quick reflexes flying drone fighters from some remote ground base. Such drone fighters could withstand many more Gs than any human pilot ever could. Air war will turn into a video game.

    Back to the original post, the Warthog is an awesome airplane for its intended purpose.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    Why do I get the feeling that by 2022 they'll still be working the bugs out of the F-35?
    It took over a decade to find a bug in the F-16 FBW system that killed at least one pilot

    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    I am wondering when pilots become obsolete. I think we may see a time when pilots are 18 to 25 year olds with extremely quick reflexes flying drone fighters from some remote ground base. Such drone fighters could withstand many more Gs than any human pilot ever could. Air war will turn into a video game.
    Once you can start bending the law of physics. Namely the speed of light.
    Last edited by PPGMD; 02-22-2016 at 08:15 PM.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    I'm hoping by 2022 - They have come to their senses and actually gotten rid of the F-35 program and invested in Specialized platforms that work properly, like the A10. The A10 is an exemplification of what designed a specific platform for specif purposes can gain you. I get it - We don't need SR71 Blackbirds of even F117s anymore. We have satellites and unmanned aerial drones capable of providing considerable support/fulfill the same roles.

    What it seems like we do need - is an aircraft like the A10 that can simultaneously provide close-air support and bomb/rocket/destroy strategic targets. In both roles, the A10 excels as a platform. If the airframe "needs" replacement, it needs to be replaced with another specialized aircraft of the same type and robustness. The trouble with the F35 is the trouble with most "multi-role" aircraft...they don't excel in the roles they end up being used for. Exceptions are things like the C130, A10, U/MH-60 Blackhawk. But what you find in all of those cases - you start with a robust, utilitarian airframe and then modify it, with carefully selected and designed, equipment for specialized purposes. Low and behold, if you build it like it's a lego-brick system that is adaptable - as opposed to a one-stop panacea of solutions, it works better.

    Seems like someone could have told the Air Force that...hmm let's see...that guy Henry Ford seemed to figure that out with the Model T...
    The A-10 has become a scared cow. The A-10's unique capabilities, namely the gun, and low level survivability are increasingly not being used. It was built in an era when the best way to take out a particular target was get down in the weeds. In fact the program was started in 1966, 6 years before the first combat use of a Laser Guided Bomb in 1972. Now a vast majority of CAS is delivered via AGMs with the targeting pods doing a much better job separating friendly troops from enemy than a pilot zooming along as low altitude. In fact the AC-130s is considered the best CAS platform, because it has much more accurate guns that are linked to day/night optics, the guns can be kept on target more easily, and it has the ability to launch missiles. And the best way to kill tanks is a 500lb LJDAM.

    As far as stealth strike we will always been a F-117 type aircraft. Drones are good and all, but they have latency issues (who know the whole limitations in the speed of light) that makes their use on moving targets difficult particularly if they know that they are being targeted.

    The F-35 is multirole in so far as it can do basic ACM, and can launch AAM. The F-35 is very much tailored toward strike, that is why it sucks at ACM against the fourth generation fighters which all started as pure fighters. IMO the fourth generation's ability to be both a fighter, and a strike platform is an anomaly. With the fifth generations emphasis toward stealth designers have had to choose between strike and ACM. And the F-22 and the F-35 are examples of each end of the spectrum without going full bomber.

    I believe that the F-35 can take over much of A-10's mission set with little loss in overall capability. And almost no loss of capability if you factor in Army and Marine RW assets.

    And that is just basing it on the USAF's mission set and the F-35A. The USMC will gain a tremendous level of capability with the F-35B over their AV-8Bs.

    Now one thing that gets mentioned is drones, I do believe that drones are the future, but not in the same way that others do. Frankly there is no way to get over the limitations of the speed of light. So the idea that operators from America and basically play video games controlling drones in a war zone is unrealistic unless we are willing to give up the decision of when to release the weapon to an AI. I don't think my generation would be willing to.

    What I do see is instead pilots operating more in a JTAC type role. Where using LOS links (which removes the latency issues) pilots/WSOs operating above the battle zone control the weapons of the drones. So instead of being limited to the ordinance on their aircraft they are only limited by their fuel load to stay airborne over the target. And where direct viewing isn't required or possible due to SAMs, MANPADs, or the urgency of the request controllers from a distance away or even in an AWACs could control the drones.

    Now with that future I foresee that need of a purpose built aircraft. It would need long endurance, stealth, lots of sensors, and computing power.


    Quote Originally Posted by GardoneVT View Post
    Insofar as the F35 goes, by the time 2022 rolls around the stealth tech will already be obsolete...
    Stealth tech isn't obsolete, they are tuned to specific frequencies. The Russians are working on low frequency radars to counter stealth (which are typically tuned for the higher frequency bands), but there are technical issues with using those radars (which is why they went to higher frequency radars in the first place). We can't just fly them with impunity anymore, but with proper mission planning they will stay relevant for years.
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