Info on FBI study regarding trigger weight versus length of pull....

[Paul Sharp]

Enoka also confirmed one to me a couple of years ago about impacts to the gun arm being associated with an ND. You're right, John: keep your finger off the trigger and out of line with it.

Also correct on the flashlight/opposite side issue. Darryl had a case in his agency where an officer under stress of conducting a hot stop, keyed a radio mike and ND'd a round DA round from a Sig 220.

Seen it happen with a guy grabbing the car door handle.


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[breakingtime91]

Unpossible! Everyone on the interwebz knows you can only ND with a GLOCK...

Lol nah, we all just think it's easier.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Seen it happen with a guy grabbing the car door handle.


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And there is a very competent and well respected friend of Darryl's and mine (and present here and LF) who had an operational Glock ND by gripping and swinging a baton to break a car window with his off hand....

[Mjolnir]

Depends who we are talking about. USPSA, 2 seconds is considered M. The Rogers School gives out a little piece of paper of their various school standards, including the Bill drill.

By the way, I just spent a whole session in the rain, shooting eight inch targets. When they are at 25 yards and further, on the clock, they wear you out pretty quickly.

Yeah, my eyes (to the largest degree) and trigger control (it's not perfect) beat my ass with small targets at distance.

GD genes, diet, etc...


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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[Mjolnir]

Lol nah, we all just think it's easier.

The VP9 is potentially worse.

Just wait and see...


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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

[Erick Gelhaus]

OK, I finally got a chance to do some research on this.

During the time frame in question, John Hall was the Unit Chief of the Firearms Training Unit of the FBI at Quantico. He was an FBI agent for 32 years.

At the same time, Urey Patrick was the Assistant Unit Chief of the FBI FTU. Patrick was with the FBI for 24 years.

After retiring, they co-authored a book, In Defense of Self and Others, “Issues, Facts & Fallacies- The Realities of Law Enforcement‘s Use of Deadly Force”. This is a very thorough 415 page book that deals with the legal, tactical, training and wound ballistic aspects of the use of deadly force. I recommend it. Obviously, I don’t agree with it 100%, but most of the information is very valuable.

The 3rd edition of In Defense of Self and Others is out. I got my copy from Carolina Academic Press, don't know if it has made Amazon yet. There is enough new material to make it worthwhile - especially if you involved in the L/E side of training, evaluating, or explaining this.

[Drang]

The 3rd edition of In Defense of Self and Others is out. I got my copy from Carolina Academic Press, don't know if it has made Amazon yet. There is enough new material to make it worthwhile - especially if you involved in the L/E side of training, evaluating, or explaining this.

Apparently, it is not yet on Amazon.

Dead tree: CAP - In Defense of Self and Others . . .: Issues, Facts & Fallacies -- The Realities of Law Enforcement's Use of Deadly Force, Third Edition (9781611636826). Authors: Urey W. Patrick, John C. Hall. Carolina Academic Press

eBook edition: In Defense of Self and Others . . . 9781611636826 | 9781531003562 RedShelf

[oldtexan]

The VP9 is potentially worse.

Just wait and see...


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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

What characteristics of the VP9 have led you to this view?