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Thread: Alias Training "Divorces"

  1. #21
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    I have a feeling it's more than a merchant services dispute.
    3/15/2016

  2. #22
    Site Supporter
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    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Quote below from Alias web page.

    Might be useful if you need to contact CC company.

    "Refund Policy:

    60 Days from Your Class Start Date:

    Deposits are non refundable thirty days from your class start date. It is possible to switch your deposit to another class, BUT it must be a class with the same instructor. Inside of thirty days from your class start date deposits cannot be switched to another instructor’s class.

    Outside of The Sixty Days from Class Start Date:

    All payments are 100% refunded. No hassles.Deposits & full payments can be switched from one class to another regardless of instructor."
    Last edited by Hideeho; 07-10-2016 at 09:19 PM.

  3. #23
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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    USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    Are they? Administration & Logistics looked more like a place to announce class, rather than actual facilitate ranges and payment and all that.
    Seems like there is more to it than that...

    Soldier Systems: Announcing P&S Administration & Logistics

    We are excited to announce our newest evolution with Primary & Secondary!

    Primary & Secondary: Administration & Logistics – or PSAL.

    This will be our service to bridge the gap between training companies and students. We are offering administrative services as well as advertising to training companies to remove a tedious aspect of their business so they may focus on what really matters – the training!

    If you are interested in hosting one of our client training companies or affiliate training companies at your facility or range, contact Logistics@primaryandsecondary.com


    Quote Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
    Because that model is worth keeping?
    Not sure I know enough about the industry or business model to form a conclusion. However, some of these same personalities were also involved in the demise of Grey Group...so is it the model?
    "When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."

  4. #24
    Oils and Lotions SME
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Western Pa
    Rob Pincus never had these problems.
    Hokey religions and ancient lubricants are no match for a good Group IV PAO

    Owner 360 Performance Shooting

  5. #25
    Site Supporter Matt O's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    TN
    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Color me unimpressed.

    Vickers was not unaware of Hotaling's character problems. And now, suddenly, when the guy gets outed there's a new training outfit?

    That's vickers cutting bait when he can't paper over the problem anymore.
    That does seem to consistent with his m.o. over the last several years.

    I hope students who have made good faith payments are able to receive full refunds (in a timely fashion).

  6. #26
    I never took a class through Alias. Something seemed off to me that it costs at least $100 more to attend a class posted on their webpage than it did if attending a privately hosted class with the same instructor. There always seemed to be an underpinning of grumbling from the instructors. It is mildly surprising that it took this long.

    It would be nice to have a viable central source to find and book classes.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  7. #27
    Pat Mac's email to students:

    In the training industry a person’s integrity is everything and once lost can rarely if ever be rehabilitated. I am currently in arrears for a very substantial amount of unpaid instructor fees from Alias with no hope of being compensated and I have serious concerns that my clients are at risk. For this reason, I must take immediate action.

    ***Effective upon the release of this statement, TMACS INC will cease all connections with Alias Training and Security Services or any agent thereof. It is with profound frustration that I am forced to leave the Alias group. It is imperative that I make a clean break from Alias and conduct classes without a promotional middleman who lacked any fiduciary responsibility. I ask that you seek your refund directly from Alias Training and Security Services. If that does not provide the proper remedy, then I recommend contacting your credit card company for assistance with a refund. Report it as FRAUD.

    The goal is that you get a refund and we continue the currently scheduled class under TMACS INC. For those who have enrolled and have a deposit with Alias:

    1. Get refunded via Alias or your credit card company, and

    2. Have the range POC contact me direct to see if we can salvage the course.

    In the last ten months, TMACS INC and the other Alias-promoted instructors failed to receive timely payments from Paul/Alias. Then problems worsened when Paul/Alias failed to pay instructors altogether even after the performance of a class. Paul/Alias’ conduct extended to the clients themselves who grumbled about the near-impossibility in getting a response from Paul/Alias for information or refunds. This was a consistent complaint heard by the instructors from across the country. To compound the issues, venues were not receiving timely or sometimes any payment for range fees. I was recently informed that several venues had not been paid going back to the Fall of 2015 despite those funds being already taken from the instructors’ payment.

    Collectively, the instructors gave Paul/Alias every benefit of the doubt on these issues but that can no longer be done. This has become a recurrent problem created solely by Paul/Alias and substantially effecting Noner, Jeff, Craig and myself since the end of 2015. Over the last 4 months this has become progressively worse to the point it can no longer be tolerated.

    I know I speak for not only myself but Noner, Jeff and Craig when I say your patronage is something we value greatly, making this a particularly frustrating and disappointing situation for all of us. You are why we do what we do. Your desire to learn fuels our desire and reinforces our dedication to teach. We never forget that our efforts are to provide the best training available in the industry. Rest assured that will never change but we need to close this chapter as quickly as refunds can be issued. I look forward to our continued efforts to prepare and perfect our skills for protecting ourselves and our loved ones in the challenging times we live in. Pat Mac

  8. #28
    Site Supporter
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    Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
    Co-owner Hardwired Tactical Shooting (HiTS)

  9. #29
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    Pittsburgh, PA
    The company formed in the wake, Aztec Training, will be run by SMGLee...


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  10. #30
    For anyone who may be attending the Sept 10-11th Pat Mac class in Custer, SD... We are still over the 60 day period for a full refund (today). Having an email into them requesting a refund could possibly help with a CC company fraud complaint.

    Might help... I wouldn't be surprised if they try to take the money and run.
    Last edited by warpedcamshaft; 07-11-2016 at 08:53 AM.

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