Rifle Plates-Active Shooter Kit, III, or III+?

[Magsz]

Hey guys,

I'm going to try and make this short and sweet. I keep a plate carrier in my car for off duty active shooter/critical incident response. I was running Shot Stop Duritium plates. I won't go into detail there but I need to replace those plates.

What are the hives thoughts on III versus III+ for green tip protection?

I was originally inclined to want III protection as I wanted to be lighter on my feet. The Duritium plates were REALLY light weight which I really liked.

I need Shooter cut, multi curve, 10X12.

I'd love suggestions regarding the above question and in general, plate options as I am pretty far removed from what's out there.

While I don't have a hard budget, I'd prefer to keep the set around 1000-1500 bucks.

Thanks guys. Stay safe.

[Wake27]

Looking through OP Tactical’s options, Level III won’t be rated for 855. III+ gets you there with a set of in stock Hescos at 3.9 pounds for shooters cut in 10x12 but the thickness is just under an inch (0.98”) which is way too thick for me. I like my plates to be about 0.6” max.

Your budget would also allow you to step up to special threat which is the newest hotness IMO. Hesco’s M210s would be slightly heavier but thinner and also provides 855A1 protection, though they’re out of stock right now. If you want to max that budget out, you can get the U210 at 0.56” and 3.9 pounds with up to 855A1 protection.

I’m kinda of preferential to Velocity but Hesco is checking most/all of your boxes with those whereas VS doesn’t have nearly as many options.

[Stone]

Just a heads up but Shot stops website seems to be vaporware with a little online chatter of legal issues, no idea whether its true or not. Get a hold of Venture tactical as they are/were one of their biggest distributors...

[MTP]

Here is Hesco's Threat Matrix Table

Lvl III plates won't be rated/tested against M855, let alone 855A1 (is that a concern ? Not sure).

For the paramenters you describe (and unless you want to lug around 2x8lbs, or spend 3x the money) +1 on Wake's recommendation for 200-series plates (M210, or ideally U210).

If .308 threats are a concern, then you are back to square one. III+ is then they way to go, but these plates (Hesco's, at least) are thickkk.

Also have a look at Tencate, though Im not sure if they offer an exact equivalent to Hesco's U210.

[Jason M]

Check out the information as well as in-stock items here. They are a trusted vendor and can provide some guidance for your purchase.

https://store.atarmor.com/default.asp

[Lon]

Hey guys,

I'm going to try and make this short and sweet. I keep a plate carrier in my car for off duty active shooter/critical incident response. I was running Shot Stop Duritium plates. I won't go into detail there but I need to replace those plates.

What are the hives thoughts on III versus III+ for green tip protection?

I was originally inclined to want III protection as I wanted to be lighter on my feet. The Duritium plates were REALLY light weight which I really liked.

I need Shooter cut, multi curve, 10X12.

I'd love suggestions regarding the above question and in general, plate options as I am pretty far removed from what's out there.

While I don't have a hard budget, I'd prefer to keep the set around 1000-1500 bucks.

Thanks guys. Stay safe.

Just an FYI, I know 3 teams that tested their ShotStop plates after that story broke (ours included). They stopped everything they were supposed to. I’ve still got a set in my PC. But I see why people want to replace them. We did. Was expensive as heck.

[Default.mp3]

What kind of Duritium plates did you have? That way we can better understand what your baseline expectation on weight and width is. Do you prioritize one over the other? I know there are some folks, myself included, that would be willing to have a heavier but thinner plate, as while the weight does inhibit mobility a bit, a thicker plate inhibits it even more, and also makes shouldering a long gun more difficult.

As an active shooter plate, does this mean that you'll always have soft armor underneath? If so, what rating is it? You can easily lose some weight and possibly width by going with an ICW plate rather than a standalone, if the expectation is to always have the soft armor on anyway.

Do you require NIJ certification, or can special threat plates be used?

The Hesco M210 strikes a good balance between weight, thickness, threat defeat, cost, multicurve, and can be had in swimmer/shooter cut, but it is a special threat plate, and thus does not provide any defeat against .308 Win or other larger caliber rounds, and is standalone, so potentially heavier and thicker than needed if you'll always have soft armor on. The Z210 could also be an excellent choice, if you don't care about threat defeat against .308 Win, M855A1, or 7.62×39mm API, as it is lighter than even the U210/U211, although a bit thicker; unfortunately, it is very new, so I don't know the pricing, and availability seems very limited.

U210/U211 would be the Gucci move, and it allegedly can even avoid penetration by M80, but it fails level III due to BFD that is just slightly over the limit. The TenCate 6450 (AKA Integris CR6450, they seemed to have had a rebranding), while also not rated to be NIJ level III, allegedly can defeat M80 okay; @TGS stated that his agency had tested the AT Armor STOP-BZ(IP), which I believe to be just the TenCate 6450 (and the same plate as the Velocity Systems API-BZ), though the TenCate plates are harder to find in shooter's cut, though they do exist in the catalog. You could reasonably expect to get away with consistently defeating M80 with those plates if you're always wearing soft armor, though that's obviously totally not something to be relied upon.

[Erick Gelhaus]

As of the end of November last year, a new body armor testing and certification standard was finally published, but it hasn't officially taken effect yet (if you want, I wrote an article on it, message me and I'll send you the link).

The new standard formally addresses the issues with stopping M193 and M855 because of their different characteristics. While there was the informal, unofficial III+ standard, now RF2 specifically addresses both M193 and M855.

Where I worked, I saw everything we seized, and M855 was not an issue there, so a lighter ICW plate was viable. Where I'm at now, M855 is very common. I've got a pair of Hesco L210s - which is no longer available.

Two armor businesses I'm comfortable recommending are:
https://sierratac.com/
https://store.atarmor.com/default.asp

[TGS]

What kind of Duritium plates did you have? That way we can better understand what your baseline expectation on weight and width is. Do you prioritize one over the other? I know there are some folks, myself included, that would be willing to have a heavier but thinner plate, as while the weight does inhibit mobility a bit, a thicker plate inhibits it even more, and also makes shouldering a long gun more difficult.

As an active shooter plate, does this mean that you'll always have soft armor underneath? If so, what rating is it? You can easily lose some weight and possibly width by going with an ICW plate rather than a standalone, if the expectation is to always have the soft armor on anyway.

Do you require NIJ certification, or can special threat plates be used?

The Hesco M210 strikes a good balance between weight, thickness, threat defeat, cost, multicurve, and can be had in swimmer/shooter cut, but it is a special threat plate, and thus does not provide any defeat against .308 Win or other larger caliber rounds, and is standalone, so potentially heavier and thicker than needed if you'll always have soft armor on. The Z210 could also be an excellent choice, if you don't care about threat defeat against .308 Win, M855A1, or 7.62×39mm API, as it is lighter than even the U210/U211, although a bit thicker; unfortunately, it is very new, so I don't know the pricing, and availability seems very limited.

U210/U211 would be the Gucci move, and it allegedly can even avoid penetration by M80, but it fails level III due to BFD that is just slightly over the limit. The TenCate 6450 (AKA Integris CR6450, they seemed to have had a rebranding), while also not rated to be NIJ level III, allegedly can defeat M80 okay; @TGS stated that his agency had tested the AT Armor STOP-BZ(IP), which I believe to be just the TenCate 6450 (and the same plate as the Velocity Systems API-BZ), though the TenCate plates are harder to find in shooter's cut, though they do exist in the catalog. You could reasonably expect to get away with consistently defeating M80 with those plates if you're always wearing soft armor, though that's obviously totally not something to be relied upon.

Our agency shot the Velocity BZ with both M80 and 7.62x54R, IIRC. I'm not familiar with what the allowable NIJ BFD is or how well that standard translates to real world application, but it stopped them and the BFD didn't alarm me when I handled the test exemplar.

Personally, I'd take a stop with a blunt trauma hemothorax instead of a penetration any day of the week.

[Magsz]

Hopefully I can answer all of the questions posed in this response.

Firstly, thank you for those that have contributed and made recommendations for both plates and retailers. I appreciate it.

I had the Shot Stop Duritium III+ plates. They were .7 inches thick and 2.7 pounds per plate. Supposedly they were rated for green tip SS109/M855. I'm not going to question the law suits or the efficacy of the plates. I don't want to find out what might happen should my plates end up being tested in the real world, no matter how small the possibility of this may be. I bought my plates through Ferro Concepts and they're offering a full refund of the purchase price. I cannot speak highly enough of them regarding how they're handling this.

My question earlier was perhaps, not phrased well.

I guess what I was trying to ask was this. Does the collective believe that III+ and M855 protection is needed? I'm not sure how well that question can be answered as threats probably vary based upon region, location, beat, and a variety of other factors.

I really do love how light weight my current plates are. I believe anything at or around that three pound mark is going to be desirable to me but i'm not really basing that around any real criteria other than subjective comfort. At the time that I purchased these plates, I believe they were the lightest "special threat" plate or III+ plate made. At least in that price bracket.

I'd be willing to take the weight penalty if there was a compelling argument for a III+ rating. I'm all ears.

I'm not sure if I care about NIJ certification. I'd love some education on whether or not people really believe this to be necessary, or not? I do appreciate certifications as they establish a baseline standard but I can't imagine that the REPUTABLE companies that we are talking about here are getting by selling armor with pixie dust promises.

Has anyone looked at these?

https://dfndrarmor.com/collections/a...43795976978655

The price point is pretty nice with the only downside being the thickness. I'm not sure if that is really all that much of a detractor for me as the weight and ballistic rating is where I want it to be.

I think that covers most of the questions levied towards me.

Thanks again guys.