Shooting a carbine class with reloads?

[Odin Bravo One]

Most people can't load them properly and the student spends more time fucking around with their gun than shooting. It becomes a distraction the other students are not paying for. It is also a safety hazard in several ways.

My insurance doesn't cover your reloads either. Something happens, and I know they were reloaded bullets, I am very much liable for damages. It is risky enough without added potential for a lawsuit. Especially one I knowingly allowed to be present on my range.

I saw this in courses I taught and courses where I AI'd for other instructors. Most quality professional instructors don't allow reloads for these reasons. It is not worth the headache. And as mentioned above, everyone I have ever met who does that shit, has that shit happen during th course, and to a man, exasperated, frustrated, and embarrassed, tried to explain how this is the first/only time this has ever happened.

[HCM]

What's the problem with doing it?


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Reloading is great. It lets you shoot more for the same $$$. I've been reloading off and on for about 30 years.

However, as noted everyone thinks their reloads are awesome. Fact is your own reloads and 99% of commercial reloads do not have the QC and consistency of factory ammo.

You are spending time and money to attend a class and learn something as are your fellow students.

Bringing your reloads, commercial reloads or cheap steel cased ammo to class results in malfunctions, slowing down down the class and becoming a distraction, not only for your self but for the others who used their time and money to attend and learn something. It is disrespectful of other students.

Many reputable instructors specifically prohibit use of reloads or steel cased ammo in their classes for these reasons.

Specific to a carbine class, there is a difference between shooting 100 or 200 rounds on your own and running the gun hard for 1700 rounds over 3 days.

[Rich@CCC]

Sean, I ran all reloads at the carbine class that you and Jack taught at BVRPC (PF members class). I had 1 ammo related malf at the beginning of the class and it was a stuck case. You reamed the chamber and all was good after.

I get that reloads can be a problem, I do. However, if I cannot shoot my hand loads, I could never afford even the little training I can now.

BTW, I can't thank you guys and Tom Jones enough for that opportunity. It was a class that I'd never have been able to attend if not for all of your generosity and I took every moment of it to heart and continue to work on the skills you started to instill in us.

[orionz06]

Bringing your reloads, commercial reloads or cheap steel cased ammo to class results in malfunctions, slowing down down the class and becoming a distraction, not only for your self but for the others who used their time and money to attend and learn something. It is disrespectful of other students.

I disagree on steel case, assuming the gun works with it. That's usually a minor tweak.

If the idea that steel case ammo slows the class down means it shouldn't be allowed then XM193 or variants of should also be considered. I've lost more time to folks screwing with that than steel case.



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[Odin Bravo One]

Sean, I ran all reloads at the carbine class that you and Jack taught at BVRPC (PF members class). I had 1 ammo related malf at the beginning of the class and it was a stuck case. You reamed the chamber and all was good after.

I get that reloads can be a problem, I do. However, if I cannot shoot my hand loads, I could never afford even the little training I can now.

BTW, I can't thank you guys and Tom Jones enough for that opportunity. It was a class that I'd never have been able to attend if not for all of your generosity and I took every moment of it to heart and continue to work on the skills you started to instill in us.

My suggestion is that you don't shoot reloads at a course. That's it. If you want to shoot your reloads, it's up to you. But since I don't do open enrollment anymore, I don't worry about it much personally. All of my .300 that weekend was my own hand loads, but I wouldn't have run them if I had been student. The higher the round count, the higher the probability of an issue.

[Jay Cunningham]

I disagree on steel case, assuming the gun works with it. That's usually a minor tweak.

If the idea that steel case ammo slows the class down means it shouldn't be allowed then XM193 or variants of should also be considered. I've lost more time to folks screwing with that than steel case.



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I agree that steel case ammo is not usually the issue it's often made out to be. Just make sure your gun likes it beforehand.

[HCM]

I agree that steel case ammo is not usually the issue it's often made out to be. Just make sure your gun likes it beforehand.

But how many people actually do this ?

Admittedly, most of the issues I've seen personally have been with home or commercial reloads.

In two of the most recent classes I've attended, people had significant issues with Freedom munitions commercial reloads, none of them had shot any of that particular ammo before. They bought it for the class.

[okie john]

Most people can't load them properly and the student spends more time fucking around with their gun than shooting. It becomes a distraction the other students are not paying for. It is also a safety hazard in several ways.

I've also seen this in matches.


Okie John

[rob_s]

But how many people actually do this ?

Admittedly, most of the issues I've seen personally have been with home or commercial reloads.

In two of the most recent classes I've attended, people had significant issues with Freedom munitions commercial reloads, none of them had shot any of that particular ammo before. They bought it for the class.

The couple of times I was at classes where someone had a problem with steel-cased ammo I was able to "fix" their gun for them at the first break with my little bag of tricks.

The couple of times I was at classes where someone had a problem with reloads there wasn't a damn thing I could do.

[ST911]

The word "reload" is pretty useless without definition. A reload is a fired case that's being reused. The devil is in the details.

I would make a significant distinction between someone's home-loads, and ammunition that is commercially remanufactured to a standard. I think that many people making the former probably shouldn't, and I trust no one's reloads for anything that matters. Those that produce the latter can be trended over time, and I've watched some particular ones earn their reputation by the pallet.