Shooting a carbine class with reloads?

[HCM]

Has anyone been in a class, esp an open-enrollment class, in which a student was removed or required to change ammo when theirs wasn't running properly?

Yes. In 2014, I attended an op sec training practical fundamentals class. We had two different shooters using two separate lots of freedom munitions reloaded 9 mm experience squibs. After one of the two shooters experienced a second squib they were told they needed to change ammo to continue the class For safety reasons. Luckily the majority of the class was shooting 9 mm. Myself and several other shooters gave them spare ammo so they could finish the class. It was definitely a distraction for the rest of the class.

I attended another local class where a shooters 45 ACP reloads would not run in his Kimber 1911. He was the only 45 shooter in the class so we had to run to academy during the lunch break and buy some Monarch Steelcase to finish the class.

It was a combination handgun/carbine class. Not surprisingly the same shooter's Homebuilt AR would not function either. This is more a matter of not vetting the gun and ammo before training. Unsurprisingly, the guy next to me with the Glock 19, 6920, and Wolf Steelcase 9 mm and 223 had no issues.

[olstyn]

If I was really nice, I would bring along a loaner Glock 19 and BT OWB holster, or Colt 6920 depending upon the class, and have a quantity of proven ammo to feed them, which would be available at a high enough price to discourage their use.

That seems like an excellent solution to the problem, plus a potential to make some extra money on the side.

This is more a matter of not vetting the gun and ammo before training.

In my admittedly under-educated opinion, your statement is the whole issue. If you're running a Bushmaster with Bubba's Backyard Re-Loads™, but it runs, nobody should look at you sideways. Conversely, if you're running a DD/BCM/Colt/other well-regarded brand with shiny new factory ammo and it won't work for some reason, you're a problem. Verifying that your ammo and your gun like each other is the first step to success, regardless of the provenance of any of the items in question. How many rounds it takes to properly vet a gun/ammo combination may be up for debate, but the necessity of the process really shouldn't be.

[orionz06]

I've seen more dudes soak up more instructor time with XM193 and top brand AR's that worked prior to the class. Rather than turn things into a shit show over what ammo and what guns are used I prefer an improved instructor approach. Instructor makes a point of each issue and uses it as a teaching point. Beyond that the shooters do what they can within the range rules and safety protocols to keep their shit working. It's not a moral victory for some dude to hog all the teachin' time with his SR-15 and XM193 just because it's a "tier 1" gun and factory ammo, it's still a loss for the other 15 (or 26) shooters on the line who also paid (or just showed up) to take the class.

[GuanoLoco]

Has anyone been in a class, esp an open-enrollment class, in which a student was removed or required to change ammo when theirs wasn't running properly?

I've been to 'open' matches where a competitor was asked to withdraw because of 'unsafe ammo' (multiple squibs) and 'unsafe gun' (doubles).

[Unobtanium]

I've seen more dudes soak up more instructor time with XM193 and top brand AR's that worked prior to the class. Rather than turn things into a shit show over what ammo and what guns are used I prefer an improved instructor approach. Instructor makes a point of each issue and uses it as a teaching point. Beyond that the shooters do what they can within the range rules and safety protocols to keep their shit working. It's not a moral victory for some dude to hog all the teachin' time with his SR-15 and XM193 just because it's a "tier 1" gun and factory ammo, it's still a loss for the other 15 (or 26) shooters on the line who also paid (or just showed up) to take the class.

This is what I've seen in VTAC classes. Malfunctions are teaching points. I've seen eotech products deadline more class time than ammo or rifles. Then, I've seen Kyle remove optics at random as well, and sneak mags out of pouches, etc. Shit happens in the real world. Kyle Lamb makes a bit of shit happen in his courses, too, and I learned all the more for it.

However, if your weapon and ammo simply won't run. ..well, noone wins. I've not seen that, though.

[HCM]

This is what I've seen in VTAC classes. Malfunctions are teaching points. I've seen eotech products deadline more class time than ammo or rifles. Then, I've seen Kyle remove optics at random as well, and sneak mags out of pouches, etc. Shit happens in the real world. Kyle Lamb makes a bit of shit happen in his courses, too, and I learned all the more for it.

However, if your weapon and ammo simply won't run. ..well, noone wins. I've not seen that, though.

You'll get no argument out of me regarding Eo-Techs being unreliable.