.380 defensive ammo

[Mitch]

I've been carrying an LCR since the .357 version came out. I've been in the same conundrum as to if it's worth it to go to a 9mm semi-auto. I'm shooting the Glock 43 (that's the 9, right?) this evening to compare. I'm also considering the Shield.

Post up your thoughts please, I still don't know where I'm coming down on this.

The more I think about it, if pocket carry is important it seems to me that the j frame is still king. Ankle carry...a small Glock may make sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chuck Haggard]

I've been thinking about back up guns for a couple weeks now, and I still don't know where I come down between Glock 42/43 and a 442 j frame. I think the honest answer is any gun in that class is a compromise, your preference will depend on what you value most and all 3 have their place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For a BUG I'm using my 642s, they work better for what I need.

[Chuck Haggard]

It's not even in the realm of reason to consider the .380 for steel and/or auto glass testing. I simply consider penetration in either the FBI Heavy Clothing Test or the more repeatable and better thought out four layers of denim IWBA test. And the only thing that will give adequate penetration in those tests on a regular basis is FMJ. Besides the stance of adequate penetration/no expansion and vice versa, my standard mantra on the .380 is that it only seems to work well on good guys (crime victims) and very rarely works well on turds. Doc Roberts has a story about the same gangster getting shot with .380 on two or three separate occasions in his area. This maggot recovered quite well every time.

The flip side being that I have seen quite a few people shot DIRT with .380s and other small guns. A rather dramatic "one stop drop" we had on video involved a .32 ball round to the clerk's neck, bullet hit the C2, unfortunately. Fairbairn noted in "Shooting to Live" that the only one shot stop they saw in Shanghai was with a .380, with lots of failures of the .455 and .45acp with multiple hits on the bad guy. This past week locally we had a double murder/gang shooting, both vics DRT, murder weapon a Taurus .380

That bullet placement thing being a real issue....

[Mitch]

For a BUG I'm using my 642s, they work better for what I need.

I can easily see how that would be. I don't plan to carry a separate reload for a back up gun, so if a G26 won't fit, capacity is almost a wash between a 43 and a 642, and I'd rather put a 642 in my pocket for npes vs a 43.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Trooper224]

If it didn't have some sentimental value, I'd sell you one.

Well, if you ever get over that emotional foolishness let me know.

[Chuck Haggard]

I can easily see how that would be. I don't plan to carry a separate reload for a back up gun, so if a G26 won't fit, capacity is almost a wash between a 43 and a 642, and I'd rather put a 642 in my pocket for npes vs a 43.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For me it's the simple reason that none of the small semi-autos draw from a pocket like the 642 does, none. It's not even close.

Yes, with a G42/G43/PM9/etc I get more capacity, easier trigger, far faster reload speed, maybe even a more powerful round.... but none of that matters if I can't get the gun drawn. Forst shot hits from the pocket are far faster and far more sure with the Centennial style snubs.

For ankle carry the snubs, due to shape, conceal far better, and unless one goes to the G42, LCP, etc., the snubs are lighter to carry as well.

[LSP552]

For me it's the simple reason that none of the small semi-autos draw from a pocket like the 642 does, none. It's not even close.

Yes, with a G42/G43/PM9/etc I get more capacity, easier trigger, far faster reload speed, maybe even a more powerful round.... but none of that matters if I can't get the gun drawn. Forst shot hits from the pocket are far faster and far more sure with the Centennial style snubs.

For ankle carry the snubs, due to shape, conceal far better, and unless one goes to the G42, LCP, etc., the snubs are lighter to carry as well.

Agree with all of this, and will add that for me, a 642/442 feels much more comfortable on my ankle vs the G42 due to the shape. Skinny ankles and Null ankle holster, so YMMV.

[Velo Dog]

It's not even in the realm of reason to consider the .380 for steel and/or auto glass testing.

I agree. However, since there is no FBI "bone" test....
An intervening arm, for example, might mean that even 12" of penetration is not assured.

[Totem Polar]

I've often noted that small .380s like the LCP are simultaneously so much closer to carrying nothing than to carrying a duty pistol, and so much closer to having a duty pistol than to having nothing if a gun is needed, that the cost-to-benefit ratio pretty much removes most excuses for going unarmed.

But that said, the G43 was a revelation to me, for my lifestyle. As a low speed civvy, I find the micro Glocks to be the first real contenders against the 642/442 for NPE/deep conceal simply because they are so much easier to shoot at various distances and conditions. JMO. I'd never argue against a pro the need to carry one, but I'd sure raise the subject with folks going J-frame as primary. In fact, I've converted more than one snub owner over to the mini-Gastons.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I agree. However, since there is no FBI "bone" test....
An intervening arm, for example, might mean that even 12" of penetration is not assured.

Which is yet another reason to just not use the .380 ACP. It's one of those guns that Cooper was talking about when he said this: "Carry it if it comforts you, but don't load it! If you load it, you may shoot someone with it and anger them. They may then cause you harm!"