.380 defensive ammo

[VolGrad]

Without a discussion of "don't carry a .380acp" please point me to a thread with .380acp ammo test data and recommendations. I tried to send Doc a PM but it wouldn't go through.

I found this ...
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...-tests/#380ACP

I previously have carried Speer 90gr Gold Dots or Winchester 102gr Golden Sabers. I just trying to see if either of these would be preferred over the other or if I should look at something else. Both of these have fed reliably with good accuracy in a LCP and G42.

Looking at LG's data I'm thinking I should give Hornady 90 gr FTX Critical Defense a look.

I find it very difficult (due to ignorance) to balance penetration, expansion, and muzzle velocity.

[nycnoob]

Without a discussion of "don't carry a .380acp" please point me to a thread with .380acp ammo test data and recommendations. I tried to send Doc a PM but it wouldn't go through.

BUG-s-380-ACP-vs-38-Sp

Handguns chambered in .380 ACP are small, compact, and generally easy to carry. Unfortunately, testing has shown that they offer inadequate performance for self-defense and for law enforcement use whether on duty as a back-up weapon or for off duty carry. The terminal performance of .380 ACP JHP's is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP FMJ's offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP or better yet, don't use it at all. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is really not recommended for LE use and many savvy agencies prohibit them.

[VolGrad]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....0-ACP-vs-38-Sp

I saw that. It didn't have any test data or recs other than "don't carry a .380acp for LE use".

I really did try to find a thread before asking.

Maybe the better question would be .... "If you were reading LG's test data which of the .380acp options (attempting to balance penetration, expansion, and velocity) would you choose?"

[ST911]

Some good stuff in here, OP.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ACP-FMJ-vs-XTP

Short list in no particular order: XTP, Critical Defense, Hydra-Shok, ball.

I like the XTP and CD for feed reliability.

[VolGrad]

Some good stuff in here, OP.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ACP-FMJ-vs-XTP

Short list in no particular order: XTP, Critical Defense, Hydra-Shok, ball.

I like the XTP and CD for feed reliability.

Thank you. That is a good thread. I didn't find it. Almost makes me want to abandon JHP altogether and stick with the small stockpile of Black Hills FMJ I have on hand.

Please keep the input coming. Yes, I do understand the weakness of the .380acp but there are times when I drop a G42 or LCP Custom in my pocket or on my ankle.

My primary carry is a G43.

[TGS]

Thank you. That is a good thread. I didn't find it. Almost makes me want to abandon JHP altogether and stick with the small stockpile of Black Hills FMJ I have on hand.

Please keep the input coming. Yes, I do understand the weakness of the .380acp but there are times when I drop a G42 or LCP Custom in my pocket or on my ankle.

My primary carry is a G43.

I still have my beloved Micro Eagle. Can't carry it for work, but hey, I'm not selling it either.

I bounced back and forth between HydraShok and Buffalo Bore flat point ammo. The HydraShok in 380, from everything I've read, will either expand minimally in the .44-.48" range and penetrate 12", or not expand at all and penetrate about the same as a FMJ. IMO, it's not a bad choice for 380 if you don't trust the quality of the various FMJ loads out there.

It's been kept loaded up with Buffalo Bore FMJ-FP as a stash gun in the house for the majority of the past two years. I very rarely have carried it on its own, especially now that I have a Racaza 5-0 holster and can carry a service-grade weapon in clothes that I'd previously just carry the 380.

[DocGKR]

So, you are out at the school, stadium, mall, hospital, club, etc... and a jihadist comes in with a rifle and starts shooting like recently has occurred in CA and FL; do you want to have a G43 or a G19?

It is always best to avoid any confrontation which might involve the use of lethal force--in those times a .380 is probably fine; however, the whole reason most dialed-in folks carry a handgun are for when unexpected situations explode in their face and there are literally no other options than fight or someone will die. In such circumstances, something more effective than .380 is comforting. With judicious clothing selection, I am quite able to carry a G19, M&P, or 1911 in virtually any setting, including hiking, rock climbing, bicycling, equestrian events, as well as in formal attire, business suits, work garb, casual clothing, and even at the beach in a swim suit and T-shirt. There are few situations I can envision being unable to carry anything but a small .380 instead of a more effective handgun.

[VolGrad]

I kind of knew this thread would end this way. I should have just looked at the LG data and moved on. I had hoped for some help interpreting or in my mind balancing the aforementioned factors - penetration, expansion, and muzzle velocity. Sorry for the lame thread. I'll figure it out myself.

... and my apologies for calling Remington Golden Sabers Winchester Golden Sabers. I mistyped.

Mods - might as well nuke it.

[BehindBlueI's]

.380 fmj will over penetrate if it doesn't strike bone. I've seen some fatties with one zinged completely through their abdomen. Large bones, such as the femur, break but effectively stop the FMJ. I don't see a lot of HP .380 shootings so don't really have anything to add there from a "done seen it" perspective.

Personally, I would be tempted to just go with FMJ. Expansion isn't much good without penetration. I don't keep up with .380 as I don't own one, but would need some convincing that a expanding bullet that hit a rib would have enough oomph left to get to vitals.

[VolGrad]

I keep going back to the LG chart and an curious of folk's thoughts on the Pow'RBall 70gr. I agree expansion might not mean as much in the .380 as penetration (and of course 100% feeding reliability). But where does velocity come in to play? How many fps is considered adequate?