Rationale to M&P pistols for serious use?

[Cincinnatus]

Short story;

Early in my instructor career I had a student on the line that was in the process of negligently handling the gun while having only shot 5 rounds. As I'm screaming from 15 feet away that he had only fired 5 rounds he turns toward me and says "It's empty see" and to prove his point squeezes the trigger while pointing the gun in my direction. Diving for the floor I found I couldn't outrun a 38. Right arm was trailing behind and was grazed. The scar has been an excellent teaching point for 35 plus years, although it's fading away.

Over a 38 year career it's the only time someone was ever injured on a range that I controled. I intend to retire with that record intact.

Needless to say I am now a range Nazi over muzzle discipline.

After recovering medically--or maybe before--did you pummel the idiot that shot you?

[BehindBlueI's]

I wonder if it would accurate to say that well trained people, though less likely to have an ND, are also able to ND with more types of guns? The flip side to familiarity.

I suspect the main factors at play are man-hours of handling firearms and losing the fight against complacency.

If I drive 15,000 miles a year, I'm more likely to crash than someone who drives 500 miles a year, even if I'm a better driver. So, time on the gun actively handling it matters.

If I've done the same thing 1000 times and it hasn't hurt me, my lizard brain tells me that the 1001 time won't either. It's why rote performance and forcing ourselves to pay attention are both so important.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

After recovering medically--or maybe before--did you pummel the idiot that shot you?

The individual was so distraught he had to secure his head and neck to prevent his injury from thrashing for his own safety.

[GJM]

I suspect the main factors at play are man-hours of handling firearms and losing the fight against complacency.

If I drive 15,000 miles a year, I'm more likely to crash than someone who drives 500 miles a year, even if I'm a better driver. So, time on the gun actively handling it matters.

If this tracks aviation, it is slightly different. For pilots flying below a threshold amount of 300-400 hours, which is related to currency, lower time pilots have a higher accident rate, despite flying fewer hours. At some point beyond that threshold amount, more hours means more exposure in the air, and a higher risk. I bet it is similar with drivers.

[LSP552]

If this tracks aviation, it is slightly different. For pilots flying below a threshold amount of 300-400 hours, which is related to currency, lower time pilots have a higher accident rate, despite flying fewer hours. At some point beyond that threshold amount, more hours means more exposure in the air, and a higher risk. I bet it is similar with drivers.

It is. Young drivers have a higher crash rate than more experienced drivers, in general.

[Handy]

I agree with the above, but I also meant that someone who has practiced pulling a DA trigger 10,000 times has somewhat defeated the heavy trigger pull making him conscious of trigger movement.

[rsa-otc]

After recovering medically--or maybe before--did you pummel the idiot that shot you?

Let's just say I wasn't the only that left the range bloody. I don't count that as an injury against my record though. LOL

[Nephrology]

Short story;

Early in my instructor career I had a student on the line that was in the process of negligently handling the gun while having only shot 5 rounds. As I'm screaming from 15 feet away that he had only fired 5 rounds he turns toward me and says "It's empty see" and to prove his point squeezes the trigger while pointing the gun in my direction. Diving for the floor I found I couldn't outrun a 38. Right arm was trailing behind and was grazed. The scar has been an excellent teaching point for 35 plus years, although it's fading away.

Over a 38 year career it's the only time someone was ever injured on a range that I controled. I intend to retire with that record intact.

Needless to say I am now a range Nazi over muzzle discipline.

There is not enough self control in my body to have resisted the urge to beat the living daylights out of him.

[Mr_White]

In the Front Sight compilation of ND's there, all the main platform types -- striker, DA/SA and the 1911 are fairly equally represented. About as many ND's happen drawing as holstering. Apparently shooting on a square range there is stressful enough for some people to ventilate themselves.

https://www.frontsight.com/SafetyRep...howSingle&ID=5


Incidents 1, 5, 6

So........I haven't gone back and done any extensive analysis of these reports from Front Sight. But if SFA, DA/SA, and SAO are fairly equally represented in NDs, isn't that totally out of proportion to how heavily those guns are represented in classes? Generally there are many more SFA than any of the other action types, though I'm sure that has changed some over time.

[BehindBlueI's]

If this tracks aviation, it is slightly different. For pilots flying below a threshold amount of 300-400 hours, which is related to currency, lower time pilots have a higher accident rate, despite flying fewer hours. At some point beyond that threshold amount, more hours means more exposure in the air, and a higher risk. I bet it is similar with drivers.

If I'm 1/2 as likely as a new driver to crash in any given mile but drive 10 times as many miles a year, I'm still more likely to have a crash in that year.

So........I haven't gone back and done any extensive analysis of these reports from Front Sight. But if SFA, DA/SA, and SAO are fairly equally represented in NDs, isn't that totally out of proportion to how heavily those guns are represented in classes? Generally there are many more SFA than any of the other action types, though I'm sure that has changed some over time.

Yup. I elected to not get that deep into it, but with a lot of these stats we know the numerator without knowing the denominator.