Orlando nightclub shooting

[hufnagel]

I'm watching Bachman's video right now. holy ****.

SLG: I thought he was "retired" when he conducted his RV investigation, based on his timeline.

[voodoo_man]

The video was pretty interesting, but his idea that he can conduct a meaningful investigation from an RV, is kinda crazy. I have no idea if what he is saying is completely correct or not, but no federal investigator would keep his job doing things the way he did. It's called being a field agent for a reason.

From his body language and demeanor I took his statements about the RV and not having access to classified info as a mocking of the federal investigations he outwitted.

[hufnagel]

From his body language and demeanor I took his statements about the RV and not having access to classified info as a mocking of the federal investigations he outwitted.

Agreed. He apparently did it without FED/LEO resources; did it all "open source" as he said, with stuff he could find on the internet.

[TCinVA]

http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...olice-response

"We also know that two patrol/SWAT cops arrived on scene about a minute after the special duty officer called for assistance. It appears that they (correctly) made entry and engaged the killer as well. The officers’ quick entry caused the gunman to retreat to the bathroom with hostages. At some point in time the first two officers on the scene left the building. I think that was a huge mistake...

When the cops left, that gave the killer an opportunity to leave his shelter, kill 29 people in the other bathroom, and finish up some of the wounded on the dance floor. He couldn’t have done that so easily if the cops had held their initial positions.

This article clearly describes how the cops were on scene and just outside the door as the killer was still actively firing shots. Not good. The cops should have made immediate entry rather than waiting three hours. Undoubtedly, many of the casualties bled to death during that three hour delay. Making entry, while dangerous, is a much better option than letting innocent victims die."

[shane45]

The complication was the assertion "devices" were present though right?

[voodoo_man]

http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...olice-response

"We also know that two patrol/SWAT cops arrived on scene about a minute after the special duty officer called for assistance. It appears that they (correctly) made entry and engaged the killer as well. The officers’ quick entry caused the gunman to retreat to the bathroom with hostages. At some point in time the first two officers on the scene left the building. I think that was a huge mistake...

When the cops left, that gave the killer an opportunity to leave his shelter, kill 29 people in the other bathroom, and finish up some of the wounded on the dance floor. He couldn’t have done that so easily if the cops had held their initial positions.

This article clearly describes how the cops were on scene and just outside the door as the killer was still actively firing shots. Not good. The cops should have made immediate entry rather than waiting three hours. Undoubtedly, many of the casualties bled to death during that three hour delay. Making entry, while dangerous, is a much better option than letting innocent victims die."

Did they run out of ammo? What's he reason they left? Devices?

[Cincinnatus]

Did they run out of ammo? What's he reason they left? Devices?

I thought one of the good guys was wounded in the leg. Maybe that's why they left: to extract the wounded blue force soldier.

[Totem Polar]

When the cops left, that gave the killer an opportunity to leave his shelter, kill 29 people in the other bathroom, and finish up some of the wounded on the dance floor. He couldn’t have done that so easily if the cops had held their initial positions.

This article clearly describes how the cops were on scene and just outside the door as the killer was still actively firing shots. Not good. The cops should have made immediate entry rather than waiting three hours. Undoubtedly, many of the casualties bled to death during that three hour delay. Making entry, while dangerous, is a much better option than letting innocent victims die."

Even the briefest conversation with Greg indicates that he knows his stuff; I'll absolutely defer to him on the cop's responses.

But man, the civilian BLUF, once again is: you are on your own. In this case, not only had the cops arrived, but there had been two separate firefights, and this guy *still* had more opportunity for mayhem and murder. And that's with cops on the scene. Damn.

[Casual Friday]

Holy shit.

don't know if this was posted or not but totally worth a watch even though its 30 mins

[voodoo_man]

I thought one of the good guys was wounded in the leg. Maybe that's why they left: to extract the wounded blue force soldier.

Ah yeah makes sense.

Re cqb - most LE if not all by majority, do now know or are taught cqb in any context other than a possible active shooter triangle/diamond type response.

The roots of cqb call for keeping real estate you own, you don't give it up but did here. Maybe due to the injured officer, maybe due to other factors.

This will be a mental sticky for me to converse about during my next few cqb classes and when discussing such topics with persons of more cqb experience than I.