I've seen some clear gel tests on the 4.6mm which make it seem "okay", but its ballistic profile still demonstrates handgun wounding effects......IE, a hole punch. That was from a longer barreled MP7, and not a handgun length barrel.Originally Posted by Unobtanium
If there is any yaw involved, I would expect the longest bullet to be the most effective when comparing FMJ out of pistols. 5.7, in this case.Which one do you think is more effective?
I read the linked thread, and it was addressing LE use, in what sounded like a comparison to 5.56 rifles and subguns. I assume LE would be comparing 5.7 JHP to 9mm JHP use, rather than FMJ. The descriptions of the 5.7 performance sound a lot like what people say 9mm FMJ is like out of pistols. That's why I'm asking.
Which was a way better idea than 5.7mm.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
Only SAPD SWAT had them and it was some time ago (15 years?). There was a period of time 15-20 years ago when the P90 was new and FN was pushing LE Agency sales. The U.S. Secret Service and the Federal Protective Service also used them for about 10 years in lieu of MP-5's, most likely for it's ability to counter soft body armor. Of course, an M-4 will do the same thing with better stopping power.
Municipal PD's get into way more shootings than most fed agencies, I'd go with the real world results.
That's easy: The one whose manufacturer has donated the most money to the Clinton Global Foundation, of course.
But the OP’s question was how it compares to 9MM ball, not modern 9MM duty ammo.
What is the point though, when the market allows you to purchase the best deforming ammo to use? There are a number of war stories involving 9mm ball and 4.6/5.7 FMJ/Penetrators. 9mm seems to do okay in FMJ format when accurate shooting is involved, or in short bursts of full auto fire. So far, the battlefield reputation of the 4.6/5.7 is that it requires a saturation of the target to cause rapid incapacitation......whether it be the rapidly yawing spoon-nosed 4.6 bullets, or the LE 5.7 soft points. The CQC incidents overseas and in domestic LE tell the same story.......you need high volume cyclic fire to get the job done, and shooting through windshields has abysmal results.
I'm interested in the military pistol trials that left caliber open. So I'm wondering what the terminal ballistics of 5.7 FMJ is compared to 9mm FMJ from PISTOLS. I imagine those results are going to be different from subguns.
Well, yeah....
A 9mm has a small charge volume and gains very little performance increase from a longer SMG barrel. A 4.6 or 5.7 is a bottle necked cartridge with larger charge-to-projectile ratio, and greatly benefits with the barrel length increase from pistol to SMG. So, if the results from SMGs were abysmal for the 4.6 and 5.7, it will only be worse from a pistol barrel. H&K was originally going to build a joint MP7 SMG and a UCP pistol chambered for the 4.6mm round as a NATO sales project. Fortunately, H&K saw the problem:
"In July 2009, HK USA's president, Wayne Webber, indicated that the UCP project has been cancelled because "HK felt it did not provide adequate ballistics in handgun form."
Adequate ballistics for what? For LE use with HP? For military use with FMJ? Would any current military bother to buy a subgun/handgun package when short barrel 5.56 rifles are now the norm?
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