Average time to draw and fire?

[GJM]

By chance, Darryl ran me on three open carry draws in a row with the CZ Shadow, when we were shooting together this winter:

https://youtu.be/JNnk5jt1mXs

[vcdgrips]

We have a lot of apple to oranges going on in this thread vis a vis concealed v. non concealed, cold v. on demand etc. I understood the OP to say: 8 inch circle ( -0 on the IDPA target), from concealment (vest) @ 1.70 at 7 yrds.

Respectfully, seeing folks break 1.0 without concealment from open top kydex is what it is relative to the inital inquiry.

I would be very interested in seeing video from you all who are at 1.20 and less under the conditions the OP mentioned initially and what I have mentioned above.
Type of concealment garment, weapon, cold v. warm etc.
Thanks in advance,

[GJM]

We have a lot of apple to oranges going on in this thread vis a vis concealed v. non concealed, cold v. on demand etc. I understood the OP to say: 8 inch circle ( -0 on the IDPA target), from concealment (vest) @ 1.70 at 7 yrds.

Respectfully, seeing folks break 1.0 without concealment from open top kydex is what it is relative to the inital inquiry.

I would be very interested in seeing video from you all who are at 1.20 and less under the conditions the OP mentioned initially and what I have mentioned above.
Type of concealment garment, weapon, cold v. warm etc.
Thanks in advance,

David, Gabe's journal would be a great place to look. As I recall, his PR is a .60 something to the 3x5 from his regular, concealed AIWB with the 34, but he isn't calling that on demand doable.

It isn't in Gabe's territory, but here is a G26 2.18 clean Bill with a sub 1.20 draw from AIWB. I can go faster when I am not shooting multi shot drills.

https://youtu.be/gSPPdK8bVmg

[YVK]

Stop gaming your support hand position.

That T-shirt, did you have it tailored shorter? I think that if you just took a deep breath in at a buzzer, it would lift up enough to clear that gun just fine.

[Mr_White]

You guys are all quite right that equipment, context/environment, task complexity, on-demand/cold vs. PR all play into the numbers generated. Specifying that stuff helps for clarity's sake but I do think it mostly just ends up being different points in a person's 'range of performance.'

For me, from AIWB (Keeper) concealed under a polo or t-shirt, at 7 yards:

To an 8" circle or USPSA lower A-zone, I'm about .7x to 1.0x, depending on how much I'm pushing or "guaranteeing", and what kind of context - solo practice vs. a stress situation like a match or class demo. I can go a little faster than that - PR is 0.62 with an A-zone hit, which frankly was a semi-lucky shot and I could just as easily have missed. That is pretty much as fast as I can move. Three days ago I did a class demo of a one-shot draw, but the target was a ~5x7" oval, which is a little over half the size of a USPSA lower A-zone, and hit in 0.81.

To a 3x5 card, I'm about .95 to 1.25, dependent on the same pushing and contextual stuff as above. PR is 0.75 IIRC, during solo practice where I had just a magical perfect cluster of reps where I hit the 3x5 in that kind of time. Neither on-demand nor irrelevant IMHO.

Multiple shots, multiple strings/complex courses of fire, stress/pressure, all slow it down.

I have So Many Videos showing my draw, I almost wouldn't even know where to start. Maybe I'll try to dig up a couple of examples after I get home.

Fastest I ever got out of a concealed strong side IWB rig was 0.99 (to an 8" circle), and generally I was around 1.20. That was a long time ago though.

From everything I've seen, doing this myself and working with other people on it, 1.5 seconds to an A-zone hit at 7 yards from a concealed strong side holster is more than average or mediocre performance. Many people have to work pretty hard to get there - I certainly did.

[Talionis]

We have a lot of apple to oranges going on in this thread vis a vis concealed v. non concealed, cold v. on demand etc. I understood the OP to say: 8 inch circle ( -0 on the IDPA target), from concealment (vest) @ 1.70 at 7 yrds.

Respectfully, seeing folks break 1.0 without concealment from open top kydex is what it is relative to the inital inquiry.

I would be very interested in seeing video from you all who are at 1.20 and less under the conditions the OP mentioned initially and what I have mentioned above.
Type of concealment garment, weapon, cold v. warm etc.
Thanks in advance,

I wasn't talking open carry OWB when I mentioned 1s as a reasonable baseline for an 8" circle at 7 yards. Gamer gear would be faster. I don't really find AIWB slower than my gamer setup, the chances of a fouled draw are just higher than from from the game belt.

I'll try to take some video of a couple concealed draws next time I'm at the range, but it is both doable and repeatable.

[Mr_White]

I don't really find AIWB slower than my gamer setup, the chances of a fouled draw are just higher than from from the game belt.

That's exactly right from what I've seen. Concealed AIWB is pretty equivalent to an unconcealed strong side OWB rig timewise, but with a higher disaster factor.

[eb07]

We have a lot of apple to oranges going on in this thread vis a vis concealed v. non concealed, cold v. on demand etc. I understood the OP to say: 8 inch circle ( -0 on the IDPA target), from concealment (vest) @ 1.70 at 7 yrds.

Respectfully, seeing folks break 1.0 without concealment from open top kydex is what it is relative to the inital inquiry.

I would be very interested in seeing video from you all who are at 1.20 and less under the conditions the OP mentioned initially and what I have mentioned above.
Type of concealment garment, weapon, cold v. warm etc.
Thanks in advance,

My times and photos in post 14 were done as I carry. In a galco stow and go aiwb under a tshirt or button down. That day was button down:




All at 5 yards at a 10" bull

I don't cheat myself when practicing with my ccw

First photo was cold. The rest were in order so warm I guess.

[Mr_White]

I would be very interested in seeing video from you all

Here you go! I grabbed a few draws from different environments and conditions and tried to keep it pretty short.

First draw is best-of-many-repetitions where I was pushing solely for fastest attempt at firing a shot from near full extension, hit not required. This one happened to be an A, but the point was maximum physical speed.

Second draw is warmed up, and with aiming.

Third draw is warmed up and with aiming, but a three shot string and I think the draw was about .9x.

Fourth draw is warmed up and with aiming, but a six shot string and I think the draw was about .8x.

Fifth draw is from a stage in the state championship a couple weeks ago. Best I can tell with a clunky video editor is that it was about .80. I NEVER have that fast a draw in USPSA, from a combination of more stressful environment, and only very rarely getting to do a facing forward, hands down start, draw to a big close easy target. There's almost always an incorporated lean, movement, uprange start, hands in some oddball position, distant target or one with hardcover or no-shoot, or something else to make it not a simple straightforward draw.

The sixth draw is much more typical of the draw on a USPSA stage, in my short USPSA experience. Clunky video editor makes it look like a time of 1.63.

[scw2]

Gabe, is the increased time for the multiple shots due to having to get a better grip on the gun to manage the recoil?