"If you can bring that average down to roughly 1 second, you won't be hurting. That time won't win any speed awards but is a good place to be, especially if you are working on other aspects of shooting too."
T,
1 second , down 0 on a IDPA target at 7 yrds from concealment might not win any speed awards in your factory sponsored rarified air but out here in the real world that is extremely fast.
As GJM stated, 1.7 is very solid and could be pared down with practice I am sure.
FWIW
Last edited by vcdgrips; 06-06-2016 at 10:37 AM.
I am a poor to average shooter. I think this skill (sort of -- I prefer a smaller target, or a more distant one -- usually 2" at 7 or 8" at 15) is probably pretty important, and I drill it live and dry, every time; my times are always recorded in my training journal.
3:00 IWB under a polo, I expect consistent hits on the above targets a little above 2 seconds cold, and it generally floats down to 1.8 as I warm up. If I'm above 2.3 cold or can't get down below 1.9 I work on technique; if it follows the pattern I move on to other things.
some benchmarks from PT website for draw to 3x5 from open vest concealment:
Dave Sevigny's 3.56 FAST record:
Draw: 1.36 seconds
Split (3×5 card): 0.26 seconds
Reload: 1.40 seconds
Split (8″ circle): 0.20 seconds
Split (8″ circle): 0.16 seconds
Split (8″ circle): 0.18 seconds
Vogel's best FAST run for the coin:
4.39 (1.73, .41 / 1.60 / .23, .20, .22)
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
For me, carrying appendix in a Galco stow and go. Using Hand loaded 38 special +P 158gr SWC rounds.
Hands at side, drawing from concealment. Shooting the 10x10x10 drill cut down for a snub to 5x5x5
I do a lot of dry fire practice with snap caps.... especially after I had the hand and wrist surgery to get back to my proficiency level.
Last edited by eb07; 06-06-2016 at 11:26 AM.
Totally depends on what type of drills we are running...
If I am just doing one shot from draw A zone target at 7 yards, I can normally get right under 1 second consistently.
If we are doing man size target (FBI/LE coke bottle) and/or man size steel at 7 yards, I can usually get consistent hits in the mid-high chest area at around .8-.9.
Running any type of drill that requires multiple shots (farnam, fast, etc) that the first shot is a credit card I am right around 1.1-1.3 depending on gun and sights.
All the above are from AIWB concealed.
My duty holster, a 7TS and Glock 17, I average around a 1.3-1.5x depending on the drill.
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I think that a bigger point lies in the sentence, “I shoot a lot.” For discussion purposes, I’m guessing that this means weekly or more frequent training sessions. That matters because shooting is such a perishable skill. The fresher it is, the more likely you are to be able to execute it well on command. For example, I’ve spent some of my range time getting a rifle ready for hunting season, and my pistol work has suffered accordingly. Now that the long gun is dialed in, it’s time to start working on the pistol again.Originally Posted by gtmtnbiker98
So I feel like we have to consider perishablility as we calculate an average draw speed. If we average times for 50 draws made one after another, then we benefit from the fact that our last draws will be faster—perhaps significantly so—than our first draw. But in the real world, nobody ever says, “Now draw your pistol 50 times and let’s run the numbers.” It’s always, “Now draw your pistol.” So if the first draw should be weighted more heavily than those that follow, then maybe the average of 50 first draws taken over several months or years of training is a more meaningful number.
In a lot of ways, the art of gunfighting is the art of the worst-case scenario. So my best group, my fastest first-shot hit, the longest shot I have ever made, etc., do not accurately express my skill level. My worst group, my slowest draws, and the easy shots I screw up are a lot more important than performances that that start to border on Personal Best country.
As a result, I’ve started shooting the Drill of the Week without warm-ups or sighters, and when I shoot them for some reason, I include them as part of my final score. I shoot additional DoW runs to discover the differences between the first run and subsequent runs, and that shows me where I need to improve. As a result, I've noticed that my performance relative to other shooters who respond to given DoW is now much worse. A few weeks ago, I would have said that gtmtnbiker’s times and mine were about the same when I shoot a realistic pistol from concealment. But judging myself by this new standard, I’d have to say that I’m well behind him.
Of course the best way to game the “cold DoW” standard is to shoot often enough that I don’t get too cold, and that gets us back to the perishability issue.
Okie John
Last edited by okie john; 06-06-2016 at 11:47 AM.
“The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
"Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's
what are your fast times? That's a smokin time to first shot.
i used to wannabe
The other consideration is what is a theoretical maximum versus what can you reasonably maintain. I've pushed my time down to 1.1 to 1.2 with a ton of dry practice, like daily for 15-30 minutes and weekly range sessions. The problem was that as soon as the daily work stopped the times worked their way back up. In my mind it was reachable but not sustainable for me and my lifestyle.
On an 8" target at 7 yards from concealment, 1.5 seconds is where I like to be but 1.7 cold is pretty acceptable in my book.
- It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
- If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
- "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG
It seems 1.5 is the standard. At least that's the tueller drill. The avg man can cover 15 feet in 1.5 seconds? I think that's what it is.
That said my cold draw is around 2 seconds. I see people posting .70 draws from concealment and that's incredible. But the bad guy won't let me warm up. My goal is to work towards a 1 second draw. Of course it's going to take thousands of reps but I need a goal to work towards. Ben Stoeger claims he doesn't see much difference in times between aiwb from concealment and open carry from the hip.
My biggest issue is acquiring the sights quickly. That's what seems to set apart the really quick people from the average people. I waste at least a half second trying to pick up my sights.
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"Shooting is 90% mental. The rest is in your head." -Nils
With regards to warm up...I obviously can't speak for everyone , but I do know who some of the posters in this thread are either personally or by reputation. Some folks have been serious shooters/gun handlers/gun carriers for many years. Their cold times might legitimately be what a "warmed up" time is for others. Some folks out there literally do dry fire and draw work every day...as such they are always warmed up when compared to those who handle less frequently.
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