Thanks for the input about the oral board stuff so far...
Thanks for the input about the oral board stuff so far...
This.Originally Posted by Hambo
My first agency's interview board had several high ranking cops sitting around a table and throwing questions at you. Most were routine things......but there was this one guy.....a Captain if I recall, that hit me with a couple of tough ones.
Them: "What are your plans for post LE? "
Me: "I have considered going to law school to seek a JD."
Captain Mean: "WHAT!! A LAWYER.......A FREAKING LAWYER? " with a lot of eye rolling and such.
Me: "Yes sir.....but not in the criminal realm.....more on the civil side of things such as contract law with a corporation."
Them: they look at each other seemingly pleased with my response......moreso that I didn't hesitate or get rattled.
Later.......
Captain Mean: "Sez here that you were fired from *&^ Security company.....you said you were never fired....only laid off once."
Me: "No sir....I was working for that company as a side job and I was very clear with the manager that my primary job came first. I would work when I could and when I couldn't, it was only because I was due to be at the primary job. But don't worry, three hours from now, I will be in their office clearing up that little misunderstanding."
I said it clear and confident...but with an air of respect for the security company as they could have made a mistake.
I was told the interview was over and I could leave the room.
I got out in the hallway.....livid and furious....and was about to drive back to my town and go to this security company and exchange pleasantries. Just then, a Corporal ran out in the hallway and in front of 30 other applicants told me......
"Mr. Lwt16......hey, you DON'T have a problem with *&^ Security......okay? Don't go down there and chew them out or anything......it's cool.....understand? "
He then offered me a conditional employment and had me sign a form. A few weeks later I was standing at attention on the tarmac of the academy getting hate poured all over me.
Confident without being cocky.........that is what they look for.
Regards.
That right there is interview gold. Remember that.Confident without being cocky.........that is what they look for.
Formerly known as xpd54.
The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com
There was another aspect to that interview that I failed to mention:
I had just bought a conservative charcoal gray suit off the clearance rack at the department store I worked loss prevention at. It was like a 600.00 suit marked down like 75 percent off. I bought it well in advance of the oral board and took it to a local tailor. I had it fitted to me and hemmed. I bought a new white shirt and ironed it to starched and steamed perfection. Brass collar stays, dark socks, new conservative tie in a half Windsor knot, folded silk pocket square also in white.
My shoes were new lace ups with a nice spit shine on them. Belt matched the shoes. No facial hair. Fresh (but not too fresh) hair cut off the ears with a conservative part to the side......all that stuff matters on first appearances. Find someone skilled in fashion to help you or PM me if you need some links.
I got to the interview 45 minutes early so that I could relax, find the bathroom, and check the suit and hair one last time. Popped a breath mint and strolled into that room full of scary dudes knowing that I had it all going on garb wise. When you see a table full of cops do a double take and all of them glance down at your shoes in unison and you know you are switched on and looking sharp, nervousness will evaporate.....at least for me it does.
If you get to a handshake moment, be firm and confident in that too.
Any sort of interview or presentation I do I always try to rock that first impression to the core. It shows confidence and as long as you aren't dressed in garish colors or leave the tags hanging off your left suit coat arm giving it away that you don't know a thing about dressing for success, you should be ahead of the curve. Little things like deftly unbuttoning that top button of your two button coat as you sit, your posture as you do sit, your lack of fidgeting......all that gets noticed.
Sat on a board for six weeks once......I was the guy with the tough questions. Your dress and your confidence was what we looked at most. Your background was next. Your mileage may vary.
Regards.
Last edited by lwt16; 08-22-2017 at 09:53 AM.
For a long time, "everybody" has been asking what do you expect to be doing or where do you expect to be in 5 years or 10 years. The number varies. Also I have heard that etiquette requires writing a thank you type note to the folks on the interview committee. When I had a municipal job, it was seen as a plus. However, I don't know the ropes anymore or if cops would think it was too much suck up. Human resources types seem to be very concerned with gay/lesbian/transgender rights and issues like hostile work environments(sexual harassment stuff). You might be prepared for this.
LWT16 and others have been dropping some serious knowledge. Pick it up.
What I posted on another board on this issue in 2006 and 2017 respectively.
2006
I have worked with DSS, FBI, DEA, ATF, USPI, USSS, USMS, ICE, HUD-OIG, DOL-OIG, etc. as a fed prosecutor for the last 9 years. Virtually all of the agents have said that many of the "what if" questions have no real right/wrong answers, the focus of the question is to get you to commit to an answer and defend it.
Second, my momma said dress for the job you want not the job you have. Go with a solid navy or grey 2/3 button single breasted suit (100 percent wool). White or blue shirt 100 percent cotton), not button down, laundered, maroon tie (100 percent silk) with its point extending to the bottom of your belt buckle, black belt with black lace up shoes, nothing too contemporary in the shoe department. Any Allan Edmund lace up will do. While expensive, you will have them your entire life and they really take a shine. No big watches, no bracelets/ wedding band ok, class ring maybe, signet ring from former leo/mil association maybe, safer to go as simple as possible. 1.25 inch cuff on the pant with a full break-no high-wads. One should never see your sock and tops of your shoes from the back.
PS- As a salesman from Macy's in a former life, clothes are a lot like tools, tac gear and guns, you only have to buy quality once. Best of luck.
2017
I say this is a 20+ your fed prosecutor having worked with virtually every agency under the sun and who has a hand in hiring for the last 10 yrs:
You should be interviewing and a solid blue or solid gray 2 button suit, white, no button down collared shirt, black lace up shined shoes (preferably with a leather sole), black belt. No jewelry other than a subtle, not big, not plastic watch and a wedding band if applicable. Tie can be a muted maroon, blue, grey.
If the suit is all wool, tailored (and of recent vintage) and your shirt is all white, obviously clean and starched, you will stand out in a good way.
Have hard copies of your resume and training record for everyone on the panel. Bring 5, maybe more people will be in the interview than the 2 your know about. These can fit in a black binder which matches your black belt and shoes.
I 100% concur re being a positive as possible re your current job. You may be asked what is one thing they need to know about you that does not come thru on your resume, training record or in the interview to that point, have an answer to such a question.
I would study up on the demographics and know the area cold re population, trends, attractions, trouble spots etc.
You sound like you have this well in hand. I wish you the best.
Be safe and well.
Last edited by vcdgrips; 08-22-2017 at 02:30 PM.
Hey, how about some examples of what NOT to do at the oral board........these are all true from the one I sat on some years back.
Me: "You are at a call....the guy comes out on the porch and points a shotgun at your partner who is not aware of the threat. What is your response?"
Stupid answers from several applicants....
"I'd run back to the car and call for help"
"I'd call 911"
"I'd yell at the guy to put it down"
and it went on and on and on. Then there was this one female who answered......
"I'd draw my gun and shoot him.....repeatedly."
Some of the others with the dumb answers we would try to give some hints to.
Me: "You ARE 911...there's nobody to call and there is no time. The guy is about to put a load of 00 buckshot in your partner.....there's still a second or two of time....what do you do?"
Most would finally get the hint and say they'd shoot him. Some just wouldn't commit to violence to end the threat.
Common sense answers with just a rudimentary knowledge of state law as far as lethal force would have helped all the applicants get that question correct.
One of the other questions was the good old "you see a cop steal something" and then your answer would need to be something along the lines of notify a supervisor, follow policy, tell a senior officer/FTO etc. Use of force stuff and ethics were the biggies.
As far as dress/style, the men that screwed that up ran the gamut of
leaving the tags on their suits so that they could return them after the interview
suits or sport coats way too big for them or way too tight
dressing way too casual for the event
brown shoes with a black belt
Things like button down collars with suits (a faux pas in the fashion world that most cops on boards won't pick up on anyway) we didn't care so much about. It was really the basics. The guys with the name brand of the suit left on the left arm tag stood out.
The ladies were much more put together but even then some things we noticed. Like the one that looked like she was going to the club to strip. Her hem line on her skirt was way too short and the female that sat on our board was the first one to pipe up and say she looked slutty. Most of the females had it right with conservative colored pant suits or dresses with proper shoes and accessories.
My favorite was the guy that waltzed in, sat down in sort of a slouch with his left arm up on the back of the chair with his crotch aimed at us, short sleeved button down shirt that had never seen a steam iron, unbuttoned down far enough to show his man mammary glands with a nice patch of chest hair exposed, dirty work boots......a five year old minimum pair of jeans. He would have looked perfect at a tractor pull or peanut boiling.
I couldn't resist and I wasn't supposed to deviate from the questions but had to.
Me: "I like your outfit. You are aware this is the oral interview board today, correct?" expecting an explanation as to why he was dressed like he lived in a homeless camp. Heck, I would have taken that as an excuse.
Him: "Eh, several folks told me to wear a suit or something fancy but.......hell, that ain't who I am and I didn't want to give y'all the wrong impression."
As he told us this, a Skoal bandit was noticeable as well as teeth that needed a scrubbing.
Then on the flip side of that was the guy that came in the room looking like he belonged on the cover of GQ. His suit color choice was a little unusual but on him, it worked. Sort of an olive/taupe two button number that looked bespoke it fit him so well. His tie was the width of his coat lapels and was expertly tied with a knot suited for his spread collared shirt. His shirt sleeves were just the right amount exposed from his jacket sleeves, his square matched the shirt, and his shoes were clearly top shelf. His padfolio he carried was full grain cowhide and he sat down oozing confidence. His shape was that of a marathoner that could bench press 400 pounds.
We all glanced at each other as he stood out miles from the others. I tried real hard to find a fashion mistake.......there wasn't one.
Then we got to his background and a couple of incidents such as trying to run his girlfriend over with a SUV, being the lookout on a home invasion involving shots fired, drug use.......
No way he was getting hired no matter how perfect he looked.
Sitting on that board was a real eye opener as to how large the percentage was of people that were clueless. You dress right, stay somewhat composed, and answer questions with running around sense and stick to your guns.......you will be in the 80-90th percentile with ease.
Regards.
I should mention, this past weekend I had time off from work so I went to a clothier in the nice part of Dallas and got fitted and tailored for a suit. Charcoal, white oxford shirt, red silk tie, and I bought some new dress shoes. I plan to use a Windsor knot.
It cost me "good gun money" but I understand that the suit will be virtually paid for the minute I get this job, so I am enthusiastically "buying once and crying once". And I know I'll have it at my disposal for court in the future.
You made the right move. You'll need the suit for the hiring process, with all of the intermediate steps, and likely for the first day of the academy before they issue you all your gear. Plus you can use it for court appearances for many years.
The real question is, did you get it fit over your carry gun?
Sounds like a wise choice. Since you have money invested in it, make sure YOU stay sized for it. I read earlier of your weight loss success and after spending my money (albeit, clearance is all I buy) on two suits and two sport coats/pairs of slacks, it motivates me to not blow back up.
Really hoping this works out for you. You have worked hard for this goal and I applaud you.
Regards.
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