David Spaulding "What The Hell"

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Didn't say it was a bad thing. But if discussing what folks actually wear and carry for everyday self-defense, it's COS play. Although, I did see a young lady wearing a Wonder Woman dress in Whole Foods the other day.

If you can learn and practice useful skills in your outfit that translates from your high end 1911 38 Super to your J frame in your jeans pocket - ok with me. This is an old debate.

It is also under discussion in this thread, whether a COS play gun fighter outfit in a class like Spaulding's is useful. I wore my EDC rig of a Glock 19 and two spare mags under a cover garment.

Now for a carbine class, if you are training as someone who actually wears tactical gear (as I see LEOs in matches) vs. my friend who does carbine matches in a similar rig with a metal chest plate, etc. - Dave has a point. If the rig in class helps you to carry lots of mags to cut down on reloading time wasting, that's ok.

[orionz06]

*Cosplay

And it can be, it may not be. Shooting USPSA with a full gamer belt thinking it is the same as carrying a Keltec in your pocket at work is far different than shooting USPSA in a gamer rig using it to evaluate your shooting skills. Or maybe they're just having fun... The larping shit can be someone wearing something to facilitate learning, such as a battle belt to carry more gear at once or it could be someone dressing up for the weekend with their friends.

I prefer jeans and a battle belt. Click that shit off and relax when it's not needed.

[Totem Polar]

That should be a sticky. I have a feeling that many folks with certain levels of expertise are going to get to the point in their fields where they simply say "screw it", and exit the debate stage.

I'm seeing this in some aspects of several fields at once: medicine, academia, the arts...

It's been years since I participated in any online music fora--and I used to be pretty well known on a couple of the best from days of yore, having been a writer for my discipline's largest international publication and having had a hand in developing some products that many here have probably heard without knowing it. I pretty much gave up on the internet due to what passed for derp and lack of dedication in my area of activity.

That's partly why I have great sensitivity when I hear folks like you or Sean M, among others, comment in the same vein; I'm most certainly not an expert here, and I appreciate what you folks bring to my own personal table, and I'm wary of losing out.

But I digress. I found myself nodding along with Spaulding. Like others here, I've taken "advanced carry skills" classes where I was the either the only guy, or one of two drawing from concealment out of a line of a baker's dozen. Ludicrous. On the other hand, I've found myself observing, to name one example, Matt Graham--decked out in jeans, clarks shoes and a Filson jacket--pulling his reload for his Nighthawk 1911 out of the front pocket of his jeans from a disposable magazine pouch that he makes himself out of duct tape and one of those fibrous USPS mailing envelopes you can snag for free at the post office, while a couple of participants ran around with load bearing vests.

I guess we all get to make our choices, pay our money, and get what we want out of the experience based on our needs. It takes all kinds to fill a world, and a class; to each their own.

[olstyn]

USPSA - that's COS play again for many (ducking for cover).

I think that really depends on how you approach it. I use my carry gun, but I will admit to switching from IWB concealed to OWB open carry for the game, and of course carrying several more mags than I would normally. (Production division is nigh impossible to shoot with less than 4 mags, and 5 is better.) I wear tennis shoes and "normal" clothes. For me, this is some variation on a t-shirt and a pair of jeans or shorts. Yes, cargo shorts - what can I say? Having lots of pockets is convenient, and I would wear them regardless of whether I was at a match.

I certainly don't view competition as training, but I do believe that it has helped me build a higher level of skill (shooting, reloading, and moving safely with a gun) than I would have without it. Am I cosplaying? I don't *think* so, but you tell me.

[SLG]

John,

That article was really excellent, thanks for posting it.

There are lots of people on this board that have expertise in some, most or maybe even all of the areas we discuss. Nonetheless, we seem to have more evidence of the truth of that article everyday.


eta: says the guy with the "expert" in his bestowed title, while laughing at himself.

[voodoo_man]

John,

That article was really excellent, thanks for posting it.

There are lots of people on this board that have expertise in some, most or maybe even all of the areas we discuss. Nonetheless, we seem to have more evidence of the truth of that article everyday.

How dare you speak for lots of people ... who are you, an expert??

/S

[SLG]

How dare you speak for lots of people ... who are you, an expert??

/S

Fixed it:-)


While typing that addendum to my post above, it made me reflect a little on what it takes to be an expert. Humor me, if you will.

Expertise is not a destination, it is a journey. As fast as you become an expert, you can lose that status as your area of expertise changes. I don't think it is egotistical to call oneself an expert. If you don't know yourself...

I also don't think it makes you any less of a student, "mindset claims" notwithstanding. I am a perpetual student, but like most of everyone else, I have to recognize someone else as a teacher, if I am to learn from them. Me being an expert (at whatever) doesn't make it harder for me to recognize a teacher. On the contrary, it makes it easier, as my filter is finer. I have ego, just like everyone else, and I would argue that my ego is pretty strong. It is usually what allows me to be excellent at something, though occasionally it does get in the way of learning. Thankfully not too often.

Many experts have come and gone. Most don't really stay expert through the rest of their lives, but a few are really able to grow, learn and change as they age. Our chosen field doen't have a lot of them, unfortunately. Pat Rogers was one who stood the test of time. Ken Hackathorn is another. I think Tom Givens may be old enough to say that about him too, but I don't want to offend him.

Anyway, I am very fortunate to have, and have had, the mentors and experts I have to teach me. I hope to always keep learning.

[GJM]

Please enlighten us on how a shooting GAME that allows you to use your gear of choice and that quantifies and compares results is a bad thing.

'Cause it might undermine your Timmie confidence, when you get beat by a 14 year old girl with a pretty stock XDM.

Fixed it:-)


While typing that addendum to my post above, it made me reflect a little on what it takes to be an expert. Humor me, if you will.

Expertise is not a destination, it is a journey. As fast as you become an expert, you can lose that status as your area of expertise changes. I don't think it is egotistical to call oneself an expert. If you don't know yourself...

I also don't think it makes you any less of a student, "mindset claims" notwithstanding. I am a perpetual student, but like most of everyone else, I have to recognize someone else as a teacher, if I am to learn from them. Me being an expert (at whatever) doesn't make it harder for me to recognize a teacher. On the contrary, it makes it easier, as my filter is finer. I have ego, just like everyone else, and I would argue that my ego is pretty strong. It is usually what allows me to be excellent at something, though occasionally it does get in the way of learning. Thankfully not too often.

Many experts have come and gone. Most don't really stay expert through the rest of their lives, but a few are really able to grow, learn and change as they age. Our chosen field doen't have a lot of them, unfortunately. Pat Rogers was one who stood the test of time. Ken Hackathorn is another. I think Tom Givens may be old enough to say that about him too, but I don't want to offend him.

Anyway, I am very fortunate to have, and have had, the mentors and experts I have to teach me. I hope to always keep learning.

I first became aware of this "expert designation" from Jeff Cooper. Then, to be an expert, it was very important to pick your friends well, since expert was bestowed on people by Jeff.

[SLG]

'Cause it might undermine your Timmie confidence, when you get beat by a 14 year old girl with a pretty stock XDM.



I first became aware of this "expert designation" from Jeff Cooper. Then, to be an expert, it was very important to pick your friends well, since expert was bestowed on people by Jeff.

It's the same now. I'm an internet expert because Todd said so. I thought I made that clear in my initial post above.

[voodoo_man]

Fixed it:-)


While typing that addendum to my post above, it made me reflect a little on what it takes to be an expert. Humor me, if you will.

Expertise is not a destination, it is a journey. As fast as you become an expert, you can lose that status as your area of expertise changes. I don't think it is egotistical to call oneself an expert. If you don't know yourself...

I also don't think it makes you any less of a student, "mindset claims" notwithstanding. I am a perpetual student, but like most of everyone else, I have to recognize someone else as a teacher, if I am to learn from them. Me being an expert (at whatever) doesn't make it harder for me to recognize a teacher. On the contrary, it makes it easier, as my filter is finer. I have ego, just like everyone else, and I would argue that my ego is pretty strong. It is usually what allows me to be excellent at something, though occasionally it does get in the way of learning. Thankfully not too often.

Many experts have come and gone. Most don't really stay expert through the rest of their lives, but a few are really able to grow, learn and change as they age. Our chosen field doen't have a lot of them, unfortunately. Pat Rogers was one who stood the test of time. Ken Hackathorn is another. I think Tom Givens may be old enough to say that about him too, but I don't want to offend him.

Anyway, I am very fortunate to have, and have had, the mentors and experts I have to teach me. I hope to always keep learning.

My take on the matter (not really mine, just something I heard along the way and chose to adopt) is that we all have three roles we fill in our lives, the role of the student (receiver of knowledge/action/circumstance/etc) is a role those of who want to learn more. They are those among us that are hungry for knowledge and put themselves into that position as often as they can in order to learn knew *insert skillset/experience/knowledge/wisdom/etc*. We also put ourselves into the role of the teacher (feeder of knowledge/action/circumstance/etc) whenever we reach a competent level of *insert skillset/experience/knowledge/wisdom/etc* and use that competency to teach others. For some of us this is all the time, for others it is once in a while. The third position is that of the observer. The third person watching the fight, the guy in the catwalk that is not really teaching anything but is there just for the show. We can learn just from watching others take up a specific task and that is a valuable tool. Observation is the most interesting position because you can find yourself on both sides of the fence, mentally. Eg; you are OPFOR during an active shooter drill and your job is kill as many cops as possible as quickly as possible, except you are a cop in real life.

Going further into this, I would postulate that your ego and your specific filter, are very closely related and sometimes indistinguishable from each other. We have all sorts of different types of filters, from familial position filters to ccw filters to going big filters and now from this thread some have a butt hurt filter. It is the reason why you think the way you do in certain situations and on certain topics. The sooner you create a more neutral filter that you use more often, especially when taking the role of the student you will very quickly accept that which is given to you without applying your ego/other filters to that lesson. Everyone and their mother can run a Mogadishu mile on the internet, how many have actually done it when the opportunity arises?

Titles are just that, words that mean things that certain people accept and others do not. On this particular forum we have a few guys that know a thing or two that most people should probably listen to on certain matters, on other matters? Probably not much *insert skillset/experience/knowledge/wisdom/etc* there.

Response wasn't directed towards you SLG, just in general.