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Thread: 9 mm 147 gr duty load testing

  1. #21
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    Mentioning more about inconsistencies...I'm noticing Hornady has multiple SKU's for the same? or similar? And the gelatin results are different, perhaps because of the barrel length difference?...or load difference? Hornady didn't specify in some of their tests. Or it could just be marketing difference (LE vs Civilians).

    90236 Critical DUTY FlexLock 9mm 135 gr
    90235 Critical DUTY FlexLock 9mm 135 gr
    90226 Critical DUTY FlexLock 9mm 135 gr +p
    90225 Critical DUTY FlexLock 9mm 135 gr +p

    I wonder how many people pay attention to the testing method.
    Last edited by snakyjake; 05-30-2016 at 03:02 PM.

  2. #22
    Known Industry Shill Tamara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
    Mentioning more about inconsistencies...I'm noticing Hornady has multiple SKU's for the same? or similar? And the gelatin results are different, perhaps because of the barrel length difference?...or load difference? Hornady didn't specify in some of their tests. Or it could just be marketing difference (LE vs Civilians).

    90236 Critical DUTY FlexLock 9mm 135 gr
    90235 Critical DUTY FlexLock 9mm 135 gr
    90226 Critical DUTY FlexLock 9mm 135 gr +p
    90225 Critical DUTY FlexLock 9mm 135 gr +p

    I wonder how many people pay attention to the testing method.
    I think the two different SKUs in both +P and standard pressure are for 25- and 50-round boxes. That's what Google seems to indicate, anyway.

    Critical Duty is the LE-oriented stuff, and is going to have a lot more ad copy about performance after defeating various intermediate barriers, vis-a-vis Critical Defense.
    Last edited by Tamara; 05-30-2016 at 03:23 PM.

  3. #23
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    Good point about the 25/50 round box difference. But when I was comparing the manufacturer's FBI gelatin tests of the 135 gr, the bare gelatin have different results. I thought the bare gelatin was the baseline/control, and we shouldn't see much deviation.

    Not only that, but DocGKR shows HST weight gain with bare gelatin. What was the extra weight from?

  4. #24
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    Minor, inconsequential weight gain on recovered bullets is almost always from small bits of test media (gel, fabric, glass, etc...) getting trapped into the recovered projectile nooks and crannies....
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  5. #25
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    DocGKR,
    Why is there a variation in your test results compared to Federal (ATK) test?
    Is it the test?
    Is there that much performance variation between tests?

  6. #26
    Known Industry Shill Tamara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
    But when I was comparing the manufacturer's FBI gelatin tests of the 135 gr, the bare gelatin have different results. I thought the bare gelatin was the baseline/control, and we shouldn't see much deviation.
    Bare jello is most likely to give picture-perfect expansion.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
    Bare jello is most likely to give picture-perfect expansion.
    Yes, so why would the results be different?

  8. #28
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    Some might think I'm a pain in the ass...but a 2" variance in bare gelatin is not something I can easily ignore or accept.

    So I contacted Hornady for some real answers. And yes, there is a typo on their web page!! They have very good service, responded quickly, and they have a fix on the way...and they took me seriously and without arrogance.

  9. #29
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    I still question the HST too...

    Here are some facts according to the FBI:

    The FBI specifies 18" penetration is ideal; the closer to 18" the better, but not over 18".
    The FBI specifically called out penetration requirements, because that was one of the major problems of incapacitation.
    The FBI protocol doesn't specify minimum/ideal expansion requirements. So this means the authority, experts, professionals, SME's, don't have expansion criteria...probably for a better reason than anyone else who is not in that group.

    Federal's own FBI test results barely pass the test with 12" penetration...the very minimum...in ideal gelatin.
    Hard for me to highly recommend this load above all the others.

    In this test, the results are inconsistent with Federal's test = yellow flag.
    The HST retained bullet weight of 148.4 gr in bare gelatin = yellow flag (not possible, it is an error).

    Therefore this test, Federal, and FBI protocol doesn't provide me optimism over other recommendations.

  10. #30
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakyjake View Post
    Some might think I'm a pain in the ass...but a 2" variance in bare gelatin is not something I can easily ignore or accept.

    So I contacted Hornady for some real answers. And yes, there is a typo on their web page!! They have very good service, responded quickly, and they have a fix on the way...and they took me seriously and without arrogance.
    One, good to know, typos happen. However, comma....

    Variances like that are common in ammunition and in testing. I have fired the same load, the 124gr +P Gold Dot, just as one example, from the very same gun, running different lots of ammo over the crono. Velocity from 1225 to 1285 was in the ballpark. Running the exact same lot of ammo through two different guns can easily give this amount of variance as well.
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