9 mm 147 gr duty load testing

[Hambo]

Sometimes I get a bit dejected at all the derp and want to stop publicly posting. The only thing that keeps me doing it, is if I think it is benefiting citizens and officers who don't have access to more comprehensive data. There is so much BS being posted on the internet, especially YouTube and Wiki that I worry folks will get easily duped...

The key to not letting the idiots getting you down is to think of it like trying to teach a monkey at the zoo. You can write physics equations and talk to him all day, and at some point he might look like he's getting it, but he really just wants to eat your dry erase marker and have colorful poo. When you identify an idiot, just post the following and then drive on.

1-Pick a load off the list. Or don't.
2-If you're in a shooting, shoot the motherfucker with your load of choice until it works or he kills you.

[Beat Trash]

Sometimes I get a bit dejected at all the derp and want to stop publicly posting. The only thing that keeps me doing it, is if I think it is benefiting citizens and officers who don't have access to more comprehensive data. There is so much BS being posted on the internet, especially YouTube and Wiki that I worry folks will get easily duped...

A little side story:

In 2011, my agency finally got through the politics involved and started to look for new duty ammunition in 9mm and 5.56mm. Even thought I was not assigned to the Firearms Training Unit, I was asked to help out with the testing process. In November of that year, we hosted two ballistics workshops, one by Winchester and one by ATK (CCI Speer and Federal).

I knew a bit about the topic, just enough to know how little qualified I was to make a recommendation for an inter-city agency of 1,200 officers. I reached out to the good Doc for help and direction. A few PM's, emails and phone calls later, I walked into the first ballistic workshop hosted by ATK. They brought in their "ringers". Met a really nice German guy named Johan Boden. He asked the $64 question, "What exactly is your agency looking for as far as performance goes, out of your duty ammunition?" Had it not been for Doc's help and guidance, my only response would have been to say, "For it to go Bang".

Thanks to Doc's advice and guidance I was able to hold an intelligent conversation at the grownup table with the tech guys that were brought in from the ammo companies. I had them add a 4 layer denim test even though they hadn't planned to. Short version of the story is that the test results we got, mirrored what Doc had been posting for the rounds tested. (But to see it first hand is worth the effort).

We ended up with 147 gr Winchester Ranger T in 9mm, Winchester 64 gr bonded (RA556B) and in time, the Federal flight controlled 00 Buck in 12 ga. Since that time, the "new" 9mm and 12 ga duty loads have been used in enough OIS incidents to prove their worth. The 5.56 only has been used on a charging Bit Bull during the exception of a search warrant. It performed as expected. While we haven't had an OIS in solving an agency 5.56mm gun yet, I have faith in the load.

Selecting carry amo for yourself is something that you should take seriously. But selecting carry ammo for 1,200 people is a huge burden if you stop to think about what is involved and the ramifications of a poor choice. Doc's willingness to help out those who ask is huge. There are limitations as to what he may be able to discuss due to ND's, etc. That's the world we all live in. But we will never know for sure just how many across the country benefited from the research he has done on the topic. Many who may not still be here had he decided to stop publicly posting. But he does...

That is why he will always be my favorite Mall Ninja Dentist...

[Jeep]

Beat Trash: Very well said. That was truly eloquent.

[LockedBreech]

Doc's research made me realize that my brother, who serves as a beat cop, is issued a quality load and a quality gun.

That's a much smaller impact than that he has had on institutions, but for my little say, I have slept better knowing that if he does his job, his equipment will too.

So I express my thanks for that.

[MolonLabe416]

Doc

Apropos of very little as I am low speed - high drag, but I've followed your posts here and over at LF for a long time. I appreciate all you do to help us make informed decisions. Thank you for the time and effort.

As for the "...just a dentist..." Crowd, Illegitimi non carborundum.

[Phrog107]

I will echo what others have said. I very much appreciate the info you have provided, not only here but at LF.net and other sites.

I'm glad that departments have the ability to get information from you and the FBI as well as other sources. For the average civilian, the resources that are out there are far more limited.

That's what makes the info you post so valuable to us. Without you posting these updates, we wouldn't have the information to actually make intelligent decisions regarding defensive ammo.

[BehindBlueI's]

For 9 mm, the results are essentially identical with barrels from 3.5-5", you get more variation in lot to lot differences than with barrel length.

What about the 3.1"-ish barrels like Glock 43 or Shield?

[michael1778]

In situations like that, consider the heavier loadings (like 147 grain) so the muzzle velocity is very close to the fraction of an inch longer versions. 147 grain loads from the recommended list with ~3 inch barrels should be good performers. In a similar fashion, I use 180 grain loads from the recommended list in my .40S&W M&P Shield and M&P 40 compact.

[DocGKR]

Correct.

[RJ]

Just ordered 100 rounds of P9HST2 from sgammo.com. Plan is to use it for SD ammo in my Walther PPS M2.