9 mm 147 gr duty load testing

[GJM]

Second question: I currently load Speer GD 124, normal pressure, in both my PPS M2 and HK VP9, partly due to availability, and partly to reduce felt recoil over the recommended +p Speer GD 124 for my aging hands. I understand that the normal pressure 124 gr round is not on the list; and why.

My question is, from a subjective, felt recoil point of view, would the recoil on the P9HST2 147 be more, less, or about the same as the Speer GD 124 standard pressure?

Thanks!

Rich

Rich, per Speer, the standard Gold Dot 124 is only 70 fps slower -- 1,150 for the standard 124 versus 1,220 for 124 +P Gold Dot.

[DiscipulusArmorum]

Rich,

Not to speak for DocGKR, but I know he's a busy guy, so I thought I'd pass along his data on the 124 Gold Dot (saved years ago from a site that he's no longer on):

9 mm Speer 124 gr JHP Gold Dot (53618) fired from G17 at ave vel of 1149 f/s; 5 shot ave below:
BG: Pen = 13.0", RD = 0.62", RL = 0.32", RW = 125.5 gr
4LD: Pen = 16.6", RD = 0.51", RL=0.43", RW = 125.2 gr

9 mm Speer 124 gr +P JHP Gold Dot (53617) fired from G17 at ave vel of 1232 f/s; 5 shot ave below:
BG: Pen = 12.0", RD = 0.67", RL = 0.30", RW = 124.2 gr
4LD: Pen = 13.0", RD = 0.54", RL= 0.39", RW = 124.5 gr

[DocGKR]

Both the 124 GD and 124 GD+P are acceptable, the +P is just a bit better for LE agencies. I find the 147 gr HST has a very low felt recoil.

[KeeFus]

Both the 124 GD and 124 GD+P are acceptable, the +P is just a bit better for LE agencies. I find the 147 gr HST has a very low felt recoil.

We are in the midst of switching from 45 to 9. We originally were going to get the +P and were setting the order when the bean counters stepped in and stopped it. We had to go with the standard psi round simply because it was cheaper. The +P is not on "state contract"...

[RJ]

Both the 124 GD and 124 GD+P are acceptable, the +P is just a bit better for LE agencies. I find the 147 gr HST has a very low felt recoil.

Thanks Doc. I may stick to Speer GD 124 for now, or perhaps pick up a couple boxes of Federal HST 147 so I have an alternative SD round.

[RJ]

Rich, per Speer, the standard Gold Dot 124 is only 70 fps slower -- 1,150 for the standard 124 versus 1,220 for 124 +P Gold Dot.

Cool, did not know that GJM. The +p sure "pops" for me.

Rich,

Not to speak for DocGKR, but I know he's a busy guy, so I thought I'd pass along his data on the 124 Gold Dot (saved years ago from a site that he's no longer on):

Good stuff. I am slightly confused by the numbers, though. BG is Ballistic Gel, right? And 4LD is four layers of denim, with Pen being penetration in inches? Forgive me, but it looks like the +p round has less penetration than the standard round. Am I reading that right? That seems kind of...backwards? Bear in mind I'm pretty new to all this...

[DocGKR]

BG = bare gel (ie. no covering or intermediate barrier). This equals base case performance
4LD = four layer denim test. This demonstrates terminal performance typical in many shooting incidents.
The slower standard pressure GD bullet expanded less, so it penetrated deeper; the +P GD had a higher velocity, expanded larger, so had more drag and penetrated less--very common result.

[snakyjake]

Why don't you enlighten us about the training you have in this field, because a lot of your comments are causing me to guess you have not done a lot of ballistic testing yourself...

No reason to guess, as I've never said I had any training or did any testing.

How do I know the HST bullet didn't penetrate 13.8" because it was a 148.4 gr bullet?
What would the penetration be if it was a true spec 147 gr bullet? 12 inches?
What was the data of the individual 5 rounds?

[RJ]

BG = bare gel (ie. no covering or intermediate barrier). This equals base case performance
4LD = four layer denim test. This demonstrates terminal performance typical in many shooting incidents.
The slower standard pressure GD bullet expanded less, so it penetrated deeper; the +P GD had a higher velocity, expanded larger, so had more drag and penetrated less--very common result.

Thanks Doc. Much obliged for the explanation. Makes sense.

[Clay]

Anyone wanting to pick up any 147 HST better latch on to the Target Sports deal. $399.80 shipped for a case is the best deal I've seen in years on the stuff.