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Thread: 9 mm 147 gr duty load testing

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    yep, shot him Texas style, and it exited out the chest.
    I bet if another one had been standing in front of him, it would have done the exact same thing again too.

  2. #102
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondering Beard View Post
    How important is it?

    I mean, I can't think of any of the advances in bullet technology that are widely used that have addressed Cirillo's issue with head shots, but no one seems to mind. At the same time, when we train failure drills, we don't really think about the possibility of the bullet deflecting.

    So (genuine question), for those who "have been there, done that", how much has skull deflection mattered?
    I think about it a lot. I've lost track of how many people I have met on a shooting call who were standing there holding a towel to their head to stop the bleeding from a glorified boo-boo. Many of those have been from 9mms, 40s and .45s

    In the case of shooting bears in the head I think it matters even more.

    I think some of the modern JHPs with an aggressive lip to the hollow point have helped correct the issue. I noted several case where we used the 124gr +P Ranger-T where the bullets dug in and penetrated things I would have expected them to glance off of. Just as an example.

    Were I looking at .40 loads to stick to a skull I'd look seriously at the full power 165gr Gold Dot, for the same reason.
    Last edited by Chuck Haggard; 06-08-2016 at 05:11 AM.
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  3. #103
    How about Hornady .40 Critical Duty?
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  4. #104
    Gray Hobbyist Wondering Beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    I think some of the modern JHPs with an aggressive lit to the hollow point
    I'm not sure what an aggressive lit is.

  5. #105
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondering Beard View Post
    How important is it?

    I mean, I can't think of any of the advances in bullet technology that are widely used that have addressed Cirillo's issue with head shots, but no one seems to mind. At the same time, when we train failure drills, we don't really think about the possibility of the bullet deflecting.
    The "why" is beyond my scope, but I can tell you that angles appear to matter quite a bit. I've seen .45 ball ride around the skull under the skin and never penetrate the bone. It rang the guy's bell pretty good, but it didn't kill him. Ditto with ribs. A woman shot in the chest, in near the sternum, rode the rib around, exited her back. It looked like a through and through, which I suppose technically it was but not via a straight path. I don't know that you can plan for it beyond trying to minimize angle and planning to fire enough rounds to stop the threat, not just hit the threat.

  6. #106
    Doc, can you confirm that the HST you tested is from one of the more recent lots with the updated skiving? This change seems to be generating some gnashing of teeth among the ammo nerds, but these results indicate 147 HST is still a superb performer.

  7. #107
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    That box of HST was produced in 2015 and came from a large west coast PD; it is the exact ammo their officers are currently carrying on the street.
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  8. #108
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondering Beard View Post
    I'm not sure what an aggressive lit is.
    Lip, fixed it in the original post. Some JHPs have a rather smooth edge to the outside of the meplat, some are sharp and grabby. I think sharp and grabby can be important in situations where the bullets hits at an angle. The more it can grab like a WC the better IMHO
    Last edited by Chuck Haggard; 06-08-2016 at 05:13 AM.
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  9. #109
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Doc - Thanks as always for this information. Threads like this are one of the reasons I am a site supporter of pistol-forum.

    I see that this ammo is available at my preferred supplier (sgammo), and it turns out I am low on Self Defense ammo and expect to place an order this summer. Could I ask a couple clarifications?


    First: earlier in the thread, you mentioned performance in shorter barrels, here:

    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    For 9 mm, the results are essentially identical with barrels from 3.5-5"...
    Would this extend to subcompact 9mms also? Thinking of, in my case, my Walther PPS M2 (3.2" barrel length.). In other words, is Federal 147 HST a good choice for today's smaller pistols also?


    Second question: I currently load Speer GD 124, normal pressure, in both my PPS M2 and HK VP9, partly due to availability, and partly to reduce felt recoil over the recommended +p Speer GD 124 for my aging hands. I understand that the normal pressure 124 gr round is not on the list; and why.

    My question is, from a subjective, felt recoil point of view, would the recoil on the P9HST2 147 be more, less, or about the same as the Speer GD 124 standard pressure?

    Thanks!

    Rich
    Last edited by RJ; 06-08-2016 at 07:18 AM.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    The "why" is beyond my scope, but I can tell you that angles appear to matter quite a bit. I've seen .45 ball ride around the skull under the skin and never penetrate the bone. It rang the guy's bell pretty good, but it didn't kill him. Ditto with ribs. A woman shot in the chest, in near the sternum, rode the rib around, exited her back. It looked like a through and through, which I suppose technically it was but not via a straight path. I don't know that you can plan for it beyond trying to minimize angle and planning to fire enough rounds to stop the threat, not just hit the threat.
    I will echo this statement.

    I've seen guys get scalped with .45 ball ammo. I've seen old hollowpoints deflect off heads and bones in the chest.
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