Aftermarket Glock Triggers

[davisj]

I read a few similar threads prior to starting this and couldn't find specifically what I'm looking for, so...

I often read hear and elsewhere in places where informed people comment that Glocks used for defensive/carry purposes should only have OEM triggers (trigger bars, springs and connectors). However, when the topic of ARs comes up many if not most highly recommend Geissele triggers which are obviously aftermarket.

Why the apparent discrepancy? Is it due to Geissele's QC, number of rounds fired through "real world" testing or some other reason? I'm thinking in terms of installing a Zev or Glock Kraft trigger unit in a defensive gun and the often frequent admonition here and elsewhere that OEM is the only way to go and that "gamer triggers" such as Zev and others will get you killed on the streets. If Geissele made Glock triggers would they be acceptable for defensive/carry use?

[Chance]

Trigger weight can lead to some tricky legal issues. I'm not a lawyer, but for instance, a prosecutor could argue that by lightening your trigger, you actually fired accidentally rather than intentionally, which would negate your self-defense claims. Andrew Branca discussed this on an episode of Ballistic Radio not too long ago, that's worth a listen.

ETA: Another good place to find info into this rationale is looking into discussions about the LEM trigger, especially length of pull versus weight of pull. That's been debated endlessly here on PF and elsewhere, but here's one such thread.

[psalms144.1]

Likewise, while many many Glocks get carried for self defense and duty purposes, I'd submit that a relatively small percentage of personally owned ARs with custom triggers see anything but recreational use.

And, FWIW, I wouldn't put a custom trigger into any AR I owned that might be used for HD or duty use. But, I'm inherently VERY conservative on this issue.

[JHC]

While not a technical expert by any stretch, I still surmise that the design of the examples you include have a lot to do with whether aftermarket is viable for self defense or mil use.

The Geissele combat triggers seem thoroughly vetted and of rugged design and best of all, are totally independent of the direct gas induction AR design and BCG.

With aftermarket pistol trigger sets, all manner of springs, connectors or other parts seem to work synergistically in a design envelope for the gun to run.

A shooting friend went full monty Zev on his reliable G34. So far so good. Then added the seductive KKM compensator. Crashed and burned. Back to OEM springs and connector and GTG. Then started gradually adding bits in. Turned out so long as he stayed with the OEM striker spring it appears he has his gun running with the comp.

But where's the road map for such things? There ain't one. Each pistol is going to be a unique combination of tolerance stack.

That's my take from reading folks experiences here and from a few friends experience going heavy aftermarket in Glocks anyway.

I don't have any interest in such tuning so I just leave them OEM and my indulgence is a Glock minus connector. See ball, hit ball.

[SLG]

AR triggers of the defensive/offensive variety are just fine as is. For a recce rifle, I like Geissele triggers, but they are not essential. Either way, they have been tested and used in the military and elsewhere for a number of years, mostly without complaint. My prefered triggers are not the lighter ones, but the 2 stage 4.5# or so versions.

Glock triggers, not so much. We recently tried to issue Zev triggers to our tac guys. No luck, the triggers crapped out. Regardless of who may or may not be using them, they are not up to duty use, imo.

Not to mention, the role/envelope of the two weapons is vastly different.

[GJM]

Two issues:

1) legal

2) function

Not qualified on what the legal implications are, but common sense says the less you have to explain about your firearm the better, especially in a close case that is not clear cut. On function, some after market parts are fine in terms of function, and some after market parts may not function, or even disable an OEM safety function. Most people are not sufficiently sophisticated to know whether their parts compromise reliability and safety.

So, the general recommendation to use OEM parts is probably sound for most people. If you deviate, it doesn't necessarily mean you will die in the food court or go to jail ...... but you just might.

[Jeep]

(1) AR triggers of the defensive/offensive variety are just fine as is.

(2) Glock triggers, not so much. We recently tried to issue Zev triggers to our tac guys. No luck, the triggers crapped out. Regardless of who may or may not be using them, they are not up to duty use, imo.

(1) My experience is that AR triggers vary a lot. Some are 7-8 pounds, and for me that is simply too much for pretty much any use. The Geissele two-stage solves that problem nicely.

(2) I've tried some Zev triggers and for a target pistol only they are fine, and I'm not qualified to speak to LEO duty use, but I have real doubts that they should be used for anything but range use by civilians. They are too light, in my view, for CCW or home defense, and I have a hard time believing that they make a good military trigger.

[VolGrad]

I use the GLOCK (-) connectors in defensive pistols but no replacement parts or springs. I have also sometimes used GHOST connectors if a (-) wasn't available.

Now, that having been said .... I do have a GLOCKTRIGGERS.COM Guardian trigger kit. It used to be in a G19 which I did carry on occasion. It is currently in a box as I didn't have another Gen3 to put it in. This kit uses only OEM parts which have been polished. Could I do this myself .. sure but this was easier (and free). This kit basically puts a new pistol on part with one that has been shot/broken in.

I have several other kits from the same maker in my IDPA guns. I have never had issues with them but wouldn't carry them due to the lighter trigger and reduced pre-travel they give. I wouldn't want that in a carry gun.

[That Guy]

Stupid question: does the fact that AR's have external safeties, but Glocks do not, not enter into this at all?

[JonInWA]

Both in person and anecdotally, the best way that I've consistently observed to move a Glock from "reliable" to "unreliable" to to go the aftermarket parts route. While I'm hardly asserting that Glocks are perfection personified, they tend to work extremely well, both in terms of reliability and durabity either as the come or with Glock OEM parts. When you venture into the realm of aftermarket components...not necessarily so much.

Can aftermarket parts increase performance? Certainly; after all, once you get away from the Glock G17 model, you can make a fairly convincing argument that to a greater or lesser extent, the subsequent models are de facto work-arounds, with the work-arounds necessary to accomplish as much component commonality as possible. This can, and has, resulted in some issues....

However, with the exception of sights, I remain unconvinced that most of the cottage industry replacement components provide increased, or, apparently in many cases, even equal reliability/durability. While they can provide increased performance (which is great for match/game guns), apparently there's a price to be had for such-in many cases, for them to work, and work with any reliability, they'll do so only if if you're a truly experienced and knowledgeable tuner, and understand how to integrate the aftermarket components with the Glock (or have access to someone who has established and proven their competence to do so).

Another potential issue has to do with a paradigm differences between a game/match gun/components and duty/self-defense guns/components. Much of the aftermarket stuff is orientated towards lightening things up to achieve greater speed between splits, which often involves lightening components and/or triggerpull weights-neither which is necessarily desirable in a threat-management gun.

I have a friend, a nationally-known gunwriter, who carries the concept of aftermarket component Glock tuning to some length. And, inevitably, his re-engineering results in a veritable cascade of malfunctions-some simple (caused directly by one specific component substitution) or compound (caused by a domino-like effect with adverse effects resulting from aftermarket parts interaction(s). His guns are indeed very fast, with correspondingly light triggerpulls. Bur at some critical juncture he always seems to come up with creative problems and malfunctions-resulting in taking things back to OEM components, or selling the gun (which he tells me that he restores to OEM component status before selling).

At some point, you really need to objectively assess precisely what it is you're trying to improve by going to aftermarket componentry-and then asking if you can achieve favorable results simply through practice and training with a stock Glock.

While I've personally stayed away from most of them, I think that there are some worthwhile aftermarket components. Recently, I've equipped all of my Glocks with Pierce butt plugs-both to slightly aid in reloads, and to help keep out foreign debris from getting into the action components. I've heard good things about some of LAV's components, especially his magazine floorplates. And, of course, aftermarket sights. And on several of my Glocks, I'm running with the the ubiquitous mountain bike innertube segment to increase receiver grippiness.

Other than that, mine are kept with OEM Glock components. Over the years, I've been very satisfied with tuning mine with various OEM Glock components, such as various triggerbars, connectors, springs. And I still have Glock sights, albeit Glock steel sights, on several of my Glocks-and achieved some credible results with them over the years. My Glocks have remained very, very reliable-which works for me (and is in fact a crucial factor for me and my use) in all of my Glock venues-carry, home defense, IDPA, GSSF and steel plate competitions.

Best, Jon