NYPD ammo (lack of) penetration issue

[Detmongo]

Good to see you here dude! Any idea how the two GD's expanded before getting through the skin?

eta, looks like you already answered that, never mind!

Good to be here dude lol

[Chuck Haggard]

they look expanded for sure, one is litterly sticking out of the skin, the other round appears to be fully expanded laying on the skin as if some one placed it there. the photos are very clear by the way.

I'm guessing full penetration and then caught up in the clothing at exit. I've seen that a LOT.

[GJM]

I'm guessing full penetration and then caught up in the clothing at exit. I've seen that a LOT.

You aren't suggesting that esteemed news organization, the NY Post, got some or all of the facts wrong?

[Detmongo]

I'm guessing full penetration and then caught up in the clothing at exit. I've seen that a LOT.

could be Chuck, but one expended round is clearly poking out of the wound base facing out as if it penetrated the skin and was stopped by the ribs.

[Hauptmann]

Anyone who has done junkyard shoots know that a ANY jacket out there isn't going to stop a 124gr 9mm bullet traveling at over 1200fps. Either the bullet passed through something else first, impacted something hard on the opposite side which prevented it from penetrating, or the cartridge was defective.

[SLG]

Anyone who has done junkyard shoots know that a ANY jacket out there isn't going to stop a 124gr 9mm bullet traveling at over 1200fps. Either the bullet passed through something else first, impacted something hard on the opposite side which prevented it from penetrating, or the cartridge was defective.

OR...the gun was defective. Don't forget that possibility.

[JHC]

I once shot a whitetail in the neck at about 80 yards with the .223 Winchester 64 grain Power Point. Way before bonded. Deer dropped in its tracks. But, upon examination the fully expanded jacket was hanging out of it's exit wound, which was only about an inch away from the .223 cal entrance wound - yeah, on the same side of it's neck. Bullet apparently bounced off it's spine and came out nearly the direction it went in.

[Failure2Stop]

I do not know the NYPD intimately...but most of the folks I've met with an NYPD background do not paint the picture of a department that is on top of maintaining their weapons or ammo.

How often does NYPD replace duty ammunition?

How often does the typical NYPD officer have to perform administrative handling tasks like loading/unloading his weapon?

Are NYPD officers trained to not repeatedly cycle through the same few rounds in their magazine when performing administrative handling?

How was the ammunition used here stored?

Probably from using WD-40

[Chuck Haggard]

could be Chuck, but one expended round is clearly poking out of the wound base facing out as if it penetrated the skin and was stopped by the ribs.

Expanded bullets tumbling and trying to exit backwards is also common.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

Guys I've had in classes tell me the NYPD does not do what most places do, as in train with ball ammo and carry JHPs, they just have ammo, and it's all duty ammo. I've had guys show up at classes with a case of Gold Dots and shoot them all up with no idea that this is not a normal thing in most places.

I'm also told they qual twice a year, with the troops shooting up their old duty ammo and getting new duty ammo every six months.

I saw an air marshal do that at a class. He was shooting .357SIG Gold Dot for the entire class and the first words out of my mouth when I saw his training ammo was, "Holy ..., are you an investment banker or something?"

He just looked at me, shrugged and said, "They give it to me for training."