NYPD ammo (lack of) penetration issue

[coldcase1984]

Can't wait for Carharrt weather to come back so I can wear mine. In the meantime, Carharrts in Nashville Basin this summer will become a point of articulation.

[Chuck Haggard]

I do not know the NYPD intimately...but most of the folks I've met with an NYPD background do not paint the picture of a department that is on top of maintaining their weapons or ammo.

How often does NYPD replace duty ammunition?

How often does the typical NYPD officer have to perform administrative handling tasks like loading/unloading his weapon?

Are NYPD officers trained to not repeatedly cycle through the same few rounds in their magazine when performing administrative handling?

How was the ammunition used here stored?

In a situation like this all kinds of details matter to producing an accurate picture of what happened. The press is notoriously bad at getting those details right.

Guys I've had in classes tell me the NYPD does not do what most places do, as in train with ball ammo and carry JHPs, they just have ammo, and it's all duty ammo. I've had guys show up at classes with a case of Gold Dots and shoot them all up with no idea that this is not a normal thing in most places.

I'm also told they qual twice a year, with the troops shooting up their old duty ammo and getting new duty ammo every six months.

[Chuck Haggard]

Can't wait for Carharrt weather to come back so I can wear mine. In the meantime, Carharrts in Nashville Basin this summer will become a point of articulation.

I hope the bad guys start to count on Carhartts being bulletproof, because in my observation it's not even close.

One real world OIS by one of my troops at my old job;

Armed robber bad guy, vehicle pursuit in 20 below zero snowstorm, ends in crash, bad dude bails on foot. Good guy catches up to him in the hood, bad guy reaches into pocket, good guy hits him twice with 124gr +P Gold Dots launched from a 3906. Bad guy is wearing Carhartt Coveralls under one of those huge puffy black Oakland Raiders coats, under the Carhartts is a denim jacket, flannel shirt, Long Johns and a T-shirt. Both bullets expand perfectly, and even though the hits were solid through the torso, with one also going through the bad guy's wrist bones before hitting the abdomen and blowing up half his liver, both exit. One falls out of the clothing at bad guy's feet. I find the other laying in the middle of the sidewalk about ten feet past the bad guy. Bullet looks like it fell out of a gel block after a "heavy clothing event" test shot.

[TCinVA]

And I was just about to order a couple dozen more Carhartt t-shirts, too. Chuck is a buzzkill.

[Chuck Haggard]

And I was just about to order a couple dozen more Carhartt t-shirts, too. Chuck is a buzzkill.

I saved your life, you can thank me later.

[Detmongo]

I was able to see photos of the subject of this shooting yesterday am. In the photo of the subjects torso appears to be two expended gold projectiles sticking in the skin with the base of the bullets visible. it appears that the projectiles had expanded and stopped short of making it in to the torso. the other two hits to the torso are high in the the upper chest on both left and right side and appeared to have penetrated fine. the subject was also struck with several rounds to the face, not sure how many but I was told at least three maybe as many as five.

[El Cid]

I was able to see photos of the subject of this shooting yesterday am. I the photo of the subjects torso appears to be two expended gold projectiles sticking in the skin with the base of the bullets visible. it appears that the projectiles had expanded and stopped short of making it in to the torso. the other two hits to the torso are high in the the upper chest on both left and right side and appeared to have penetrated fine. the subject was also struck with several rounds to the face, not sure how many but I was told at least three maybe as many as five.

Perhaps the bullets traveled down the inside of the bad guy's arm before exiting and impacting the torso? Hopefully the ME can shed some light.

[Detmongo]

El don't know as I was shown the photos and asked if I have ever seen anything like this before. could it be a bad lot of ammo, I don't know.

[SLG]

I was able to see photos of the subject of this shooting yesterday am. I the photo of the subjects torso appears to be two expended gold projectiles sticking in the skin with the base of the bullets visible. it appears that the projectiles had expanded and stopped short of making it in to the torso. the other two hits to the torso are high in the the upper chest on both left and right side and appeared to have penetrated fine. the subject was also struck with several rounds to the face, not sure how many but I was told at least three maybe as many as five.

Good to see you here dude! Any idea how the two GD's expanded before getting through the skin?

eta, looks like you already answered that, never mind!

[Detmongo]

they look expanded for sure, one is litterly sticking out of the skin, the other round appears to be fully expanded laying on the skin as if some one placed it there. the photos are very clear by the way.