NYPD ammo (lack of) penetration issue

[GJM]

http://nypost.com/2016/05/19/nypd-ch...-cops-bullets/


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[Chuck Haggard]

The NYPD issues the 124gr +P Gold Dot.

I detect bullshit.

This makes me think of the powerpoint that was floating around claiming that a shot bad guy was hit with several 180gr Gold Dots that stopped within an inch of penetration. The whole story was bullshit.

[El Cid]

Given their record in shootings, I can't help but wonder if the bullets had already passed through innocent bystanders and that's why they were out of gas. Still... Maybe I'll go order a Carhartt jacket.

[SLG]

I have no idea if the story is real or not, but ammo failures from a major ammo maker are certainly not particularly rare in testing.

The former head of the FTU seems to think that a weapon malfunction could have caused the issue, though he admits, that the ammo is the more likely culprit. I can't wait to learn what kind of weapon malfunction could cause bullets to under penetrate. Given that the NYPD likes to invent new names for things dealing with firearms and training, maybe this is the dreaded Alpha 5 malfunction.

[GJM]

I have no idea if the story is real or not, but ammo failures from a major ammo maker are certainly not particularly rare in testing.

The former head of the FTU seems to think that a weapon malfunction could have caused the issue, though he admits, that the ammo is the more likely culprit. I can't wait to learn what kind of weapon malfunction could cause bullets to under penetrate. Given that the NYPD likes to invent new names for things dealing with firearms and training, maybe this is the dreaded Alpha 5 malfunction.

That is one of your funnier posts this year.

[Ed L]

The NYPD issues the 124gr +P Gold Dot.

I would think that if the round was so underloaded that it did not have the umph to penetrate the coat of the person being shot, it would probably not cycle reliably in the 9mm guns firing them.

Unless they are talking about massive overexpansion of the bullets in the coat.

[Chuck Haggard]

I would think that if the round was so underloaded that it did not have the umph to penetrate the coat of the person being shot, it would probably not cycle reliably in the 9mm guns firing them.

Unless they are talking about massive overexpansion of the bullets in the coat.

If the bullet can run the gun it's typically GTG.


Bullets don't expand in clothing, they plug, which makes them penetrate more when they hit meat.

[okie john]

I like how the Post called the guy with the knife a "madman." I guess the press does get things right occasionally.


Okie John

[Unobtanium]

Those jackets are pretty thick and tough. If the perp was standing in such a way that the jacket was hanging free and maybe the bullet hit in such a way that there were 2 layers of it, say, in a fold or something, it might wrap around it similar to an actual vest. I dunno. never shot one of those.

[TCinVA]

I do not know the NYPD intimately...but most of the folks I've met with an NYPD background do not paint the picture of a department that is on top of maintaining their weapons or ammo.

How often does NYPD replace duty ammunition?

How often does the typical NYPD officer have to perform administrative handling tasks like loading/unloading his weapon?

Are NYPD officers trained to not repeatedly cycle through the same few rounds in their magazine when performing administrative handling?

How was the ammunition used here stored?

In a situation like this all kinds of details matter to producing an accurate picture of what happened. The press is notoriously bad at getting those details right.