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Thread: Youth and strength beat age and skill, or vice versa

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by KeeFus View Post
    Until we do our POPAT and the old guys like me (I'm 45) smoke them. I'm not in great shape either...but my mindset is different. Seriously, we took our POPAT January and you would be surprised at how many young bucks (under the age of 35) failed or barely passed. I broke my ankle on it...I was out 2 months and then passed it with a lot of time to spare. I had literally been back on the road for a couple weeks and hadn't really done any PT. Hell, one has been out of the academy less than a year and failed! This younger gen seems to get mind-fucked way too easy and it effects their performance.
    Perhaps things have changed since I was wearing a uniform but the young bucks I dealt with kept me on my toes.
    #RESIST

  2. #12
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    Age matters, strength matters, speed matters, knowledge matters, mindset matters, and willingness matters. How much weight each component has depends on the individual and circumstances.

    At 60, my strength and speed are not what they once were. However, the bigger factor working against me now is eyesight that limits a sharp front sight. In fact, the only front sights I can see are Trij HDs and Ameriglo ProGlos. And they aren't clear, just a visible red ball to stick in a blurry notch. My personal shooting goals now are defense and pleasure, and I'm still effective at any normal defensive range. Shooting plates at 50 yards without corrective range glasses isn't as much fun as it once was, except to entertain a shooting buddy....

    I'm still willing, have relative experience and knowledge. But I had these at 45, and was MUCH more well rounded in ability. I have learned to accept that good enough, really is.

  3. #13
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    Interesting discussion. Even though I've been a user of firearms my whole life, I only started to become interested in proper technique within the past 8-10 years or so. I have a lot more years of training and experience in martial arts than in shooting.

    I guess I probably peaked in my late 30s - early 40s when it comes to a combination of speed, skill and strength. My strength actually increased from there all the way into my 50s because I started to focus more on strength training during those years. At this point I'm definitely not as fast as younger practitioners, but I feel my experience does provide an advantage. I train in a style of Okinawan karate that emphasizes both hard and soft techniques, in which strength is important along with proper technique. The power of various techniques comes partially from body dynamics and proper execution, but actual strength training and muscle development helps a lot.

    At this point in my life I know that my speed and reflexes are starting to diminish just as the aches and pains increase -- but I feel I can use my experience to help younger / less senior people more fully utilize their speed and youthfulness by virtue of experience.

  4. #14
    I have a great internal medicine doc, and he once said to me "worry about the things that you can control, and don't worry about the things that you can not control." If all goes well, we will all suffer age related changes as we age. The goal is to minimize those age related changes we can control, through lifestyle choices like eating a healthy diet, not smoking, maintaining a good weight, exercising, having friends, etc.

    Fortunately, shooting has a significant thinking component. That is the reason our men's and women's USPSA champions, for example, are not teenagers or even typically 20 something year olds. On demand performance is a lot easier when you have control of your physical and mental game.

    For many of us, vision changes are the single most difficult thing to deal with handguns. With a long gun, between red dot and variable scope, vision is not too big an issue. Visual acuity with the handgun does effect many mature shooters, and I am hoping in the very near term we have red dot sights for the Timmie gun that rival what Aimpoint has given us with the long gun. At that point, I think the old guys will be kicking ass for many years.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    There's absolutely plenty of young bucks in LE and mil that would think of you as old and make you feel old during PT. Guaranteed.
    Totally agree, however in the grand scheme of things I am not that old even though I've BTDT, there is still more time to go than has went for me.

    It's all relative, man.
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  6. #16
    I'm not sure I explained myself very well.

    My only real point was that we need to enjoy shooting for shooting's sake. No one continues to dominate past a certain point, where ever that point is. If winning is your motivation, you will eventually not win anymore. If strict self defense is your motivation, the skill needed for that (vis a vis the gun) is pretty low, and not often exercised by most, so it is hard to keep training for just that.

    Accept that you will not always be able to do what you can now or what you once did, and find a reason to continue shooting. I want to shoot for my entire life. I can't let my ego be tied that strongly to it. Nor my vision, strength etc.

    Back to the BJJ start of this, Helio Gracie was not going to tap out a 35 year old fighter when he was 95, regardless of his superior knowledge and mat time. No cunning or skill would make up for that difference. He could however still enjoy rolling, and would likely have done pretty well in many defensive scenarios. How many 95 years olds can say any of that? How many 65 years olds? I want to be that active and still enjoy life and shooting when I'm 95.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    I'm not sure I explained myself very well.

    My only real point was that we need to enjoy shooting for shooting's sake. No one continues to dominate past a certain point, where ever that point is. If winning is your motivation, you will eventually not win anymore. If strict self defense is your motivation, the skill needed for that (vis a vis the gun) is pretty low, and not often exercised by most, so it is hard to keep training for just that.

    Accept that you will not always be able to do what you can now or what you once did, and find a reason to continue shooting. I want to shoot for my entire life. I can't let my ego be tied that strongly to it. Nor my vision, strength etc.

    Back to the BJJ start of this, Helio Gracie was not going to tap out a 35 year old fighter when he was 95, regardless of his superior knowledge and mat time. No cunning or skill would make up for that difference. He could however still enjoy rolling, and would likely have done pretty well in many defensive scenarios. How many 95 years olds can say any of that? How many 65 years olds? I want to be that active and still enjoy life and shooting when I'm 95.
    Much wisdom here.

    Been struggling with my ego. I need to get past it.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    I'm not sure I explained myself very well.

    My only real point was that we need to enjoy shooting for shooting's sake. No one continues to dominate past a certain point, where ever that point is. If winning is your motivation, you will eventually not win anymore. If strict self defense is your motivation, the skill needed for that (vis a vis the gun) is pretty low, and not often exercised by most, so it is hard to keep training for just that.

    Accept that you will not always be able to do what you can now or what you once did, and find a reason to continue shooting. I want to shoot for my entire life. I can't let my ego be tied that strongly to it. Nor my vision, strength etc.

    Back to the BJJ start of this, Helio Gracie was not going to tap out a 35 year old fighter when he was 95, regardless of his superior knowledge and mat time. No cunning or skill would make up for that difference. He could however still enjoy rolling, and would likely have done pretty well in many defensive scenarios. How many 95 years olds can say any of that? How many 65 years olds? I want to be that active and still enjoy life and shooting when I'm 95.
    To build on this -as a young guy (still in my 20's) , one thing is abundantly clear;

    No matter how hard I work, or the size of my muscles, or how "dangerous" I perceive myself-there's always someone younger , faster, and more dangerous out there. Always a bigger fish, as it were.

    The personal outlook I have is to be a better man then I was in the past. The rest is in the purview of chance and probability.
    The Minority Marksman.
    "When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet."
    -a Ch'an Buddhist axiom.

  9. #19
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    SLG--Well said!
    Last edited by DocGKR; 05-10-2016 at 12:20 PM.
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GardoneVT View Post
    No matter how hard I work, or the size of my muscles, or how "dangerous" I perceive myself-there's always someone younger , faster, and more dangerous out there.
    And an old guy who will cheat....

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