"Passion of the Gun" - what platform next?

[Nephrology]

So, I am pretty damn well settled into 9mm Glocks as my platform of choice. I own 5 (+ a gen 4 g35) and have tons of mags and support gear and proprietary sight tools and yada yada. They aren't going anywhere is the bottom line.

That said, I have found myself more and more wanting a metal framed handgun that I can 'fall in love with' a little more, and ideally a platform that will help me expand my handgun repertoire + skill via a new trigger system (SAO, DAO, SA/DA, etc). This is of course going to take backseat to skill building with the guns I already own, but as I am meeting my financial targets and finding more money on the side, I want to start thinking about buying into a second platform that will complement my Glocks.

Logistically, I have tons of 9mm, but am also already sort of bought into S&W revolvers, too. I have a J frame that I consider indispensible and a Model 19-3 that is one of my favorite handguns of all time. I have a modest amount of .38 ammo (ball and JHP) lying around, so this might something to consider. That said, I also do have a shitty .45 1911 (RIA Tactical 5") that I could use as a backup/training gun if I decided to buy into 1911s..

As for qualities I am looking for in the new platform (more or less in order of priority)-

1. Must be reliable, durable, easy to maintain. I can't always be frustrated that it's not working or I won't love it (and the whole point is to love it).
2. Secondary to the above, I must be comfortable carrying this gun (or a smaller derivative within the same platform).
3. I want it to be purty. Steel or aluminum frame and ideally with wood grips that don't make it the thickness of a baseball bat.
4. Secondary to the above, I have smaller hands, so humungo pistols with long LOPs are sorta out.
5. Ideally chambered in 9mm or .38/.357, but .45 is on the table as per above.
6. I sort of like the idea of this second platform being a "ban state" alternative (i.e. 10 rounds or less). I am about to renew my CT CCW permit as my parents live there and I may have occasion to visit them and may want to bring gun with. Also would be nice to have on deck in case I end up relocating to a ban state, or the ban state comes to me (I do live in CO, after all, so the threat is real).
7. Sort of interested in either a revolver, DAO or SA/DA platform, as I've found my work with the M19 has directly improved my marksmanship with glocks.

With that in mind, here are what I have considered with pros and cons below:

1. S&W Revolvers (S&W 640 Pro, then maybe a 3" fixed sight K frame, and buying similar, older smiths as they appear)
+Amazing triggers and downright beautiful guns.
+I already own 2 no-lock smiths
+Chambered in a caliber I support
+Good training for my J frame, which I do continue to use somewhat regularly
+Older fixed sight smiths can still be found for cheap online (i.e. 4" Model 10s/64s)

-Not interested in current production Hillary Hole smiths as defense guns, which limits a lot of my search to the used market
-Though I love revolvers, they have drawbacks vs. bottom feeders for self defense.
-Options for changing out sights + putting in tritiums are limited and spendy for most models, esp. the pre-lock
-My ideal carry smiths - the 3" K frames with adjustable sights - are not easy to come by or cheap when they can be found

2. Ruger Revolvers (4.2" GP100 +/- Match Champion, and a SP101, +/- a 3" for carry)
+Current production Rugers are great - no hillary hole
+GP100s are built like tanks. Nuf said.
+Less expensive than S&W Revolvers as a whole
+Front sight can be easily swapped on newer 4" GP100s.
+Chambered in a caliber I support

- triggers aren't as nice as S&Ws, but this is a minor consideration as they can still get pretty darn good
- I own a J frame already, so I'd have to consider manual of arms differences + buy an SP101 to offset the J
- Same revolver vs autoloader drawbacks as above

3. 1911s (9mm or .45, a 5" govt and probably a 4.25" for carry)
+Definitely fulfill the tinkerer/passion of the gun bit.
+I own a 1911 that, while kind of crappy, works well enough to be a decent training gun.
+Used 1911s can be pretty often found on gunbroker for a steal if you look long enough
+Good ban state bottom feeder option

-All of the usual 1911 problems
-I'd prefer a 9mm but add on to that the extra work of getting the 9mm to run
-While you can get good deals on a 1911, that doesn't obviate the work and money I'll have to put into getting them to work.
-as a correlate to the above, good 1911s = $$
-I actually don't love the SAO trigger? I find I shoot much better with DA style triggers for whatever reason.
- .45 would be cheaper and easier to support, but ammo is spendier and .45 is harder to shoot well than 9mm
- 4-4.25" guns will be spendier and might be harder to get running

4. SIG Sauer Classic series (p229, P226, P239, P225)
+Modern platform with lots of support that is known to be reliable
+Fulfills the pretty factor, especially if I get one of the single stacks, as I can tolerate the thicker wood grips on those more easily
+SA/DA trigger that I actually quite like, though it will be sort of hard to transition
+I can buy 9mm SIGs, which saves me a lot of money as I have 9mm stacked nice and deep for now

-On the spendier side vs. some of the revolver options
-Buying into P229s would mean no wood grips (too thick)
-Splitting my money between double and single stack SIGs means 2x as many mags

5. Berettas (Not sure which model but ideally a 92D or 92G, +/- a compact)
+ Pretty factor is there
+ Reliable FS guns with readily available 15rd mags
+ Chambered in 9mm

-Very thick with long triggers for my hands, especially with wood grips
-Does not fulfill ban state carry role
-Standard 92s with the fixed front sight drive me up the wall. Not being able to easily change out the front sight will make me crazy.

6. CZs (CZ P01, PCR, and maybe P07 for practical backup version)
+ Pretty factor is there
+ Known element, wide aftermarket
+ They have both metal and polymer guns with very similar ergos so I can buy into the plastic guns as daily drivers if that makes sense long term
+ Relatively inexpensive
+ Chambered in 9mm

-Some reliability issues are known
-Sight options are kinda limited
-Does not fulfill ban state criteria
-Longer LOP than SIGs but shorter than berettas

So, what say you? Anything I haven't thought about? Again, I will be doing this in as much of a planned/controlled fashion as possible - ideally as I make progress on other financial goals of mine - so I am going to try to plan this out as carefully as possible. Any/all input is welcome.

[MGW]

My knee jerk reaction is the Sig P225-a1. It meets all of your requirements. I looked at another one yesterday and the ergos and trigger are simply fantastic. If I hadn't just gotten a good deal on a used 239 I would own one. I read somewhere that there is a rumor of 10 round magazines coming for it.

It is pricey but shop around and you should be able to find one under a grand. The Legion series just hit the IOP list for under $1k so I would think the 225 will be slightly less.

It should carry really well but I can't comment on that obviously. On paper the 229 should be a really close in size alternative but doesn't meet your mag capacity requirement. Also not sure about the ergos for your hands.

[Hauptmann]

I would say a classic Sig of some kind in 9mm(Sigs still run best in 9mm). IMHO there is very little point in going outside of your already established 9mm logistics, unless you want to go .45acp and then there are a very select few pistols that I would recommend. I would suggest getting a jack-of-all-trades sized pistol(P228/P229) to give yourself a good perspective of the platform instead of getting a niche pistol which I would classify as a P239(subcompact with reduce capabilities) or P226(large mostly open carry). Personally I love the old W. German P228s, but they are less common on the market and command premium pricing. So, I would go with a post 2012 P229 9mm as it will fill the widest variety of needs.

[Nephrology]

My knee jerk reaction is the Sig P225-a1. It meets all of your requirements. I looked at another one yesterday and the ergos and trigger are simply fantastic. If I hadn't just gotten a good deal on a used 239 I would own one. I read somewhere that there is a rumor of 10 round magazines coming for it.

It is pricey but shop around and you should be able to find one under a grand. The Legion series just hit the IOP list for under $1k so I would think the 225 will be slightly less.

It should carry really well but I can't comment on that obviously. On paper the 229 should be a really close in size alternative but doesn't meet your mag capacity requirement. Also not sure about the ergos for your hands.

I can make the doublestack 9mm SIGs work with factory plastic grips - if I was to get into SIGs, I'd probably start with a used 9mm P229 and then move into the single stack P225/P239s over time.

Are the new P225s worth the premium over the old used german ones?

[jh9]

1. S&W Revolvers (S&W Pro, then maybe a 3" fixed sight K frame, and buying similar, older smiths as they appear)
+Amazing triggers and downright beautiful guns.
+I already own 2 no-lock smiths
+Chambered in a caliber I support
+Good training for my J frame, which I do continue to use somewhat regularly
+Older fixed sight smiths can still be found for cheap online (i.e. 4" Model 10s/64s)

-Not interested in current production Hillary Hole smiths as defense guns, which limits a lot of my search to the used market
-Though I love revolvers, they have drawbacks vs. bottom feeders for self defense.
-Options for changing out sights + putting in tritiums are limited and spendy for most models, esp. the pre-lock
-My ideal carry smiths - the 3" K frames with adjustable sights - are not easy to come by or cheap when they can be found

2. Ruger Revolvers (4.2" GP100 +/- Match Champion, and a SP101, +/- a 3" for carry)
+Current production Rugers are great - no hillary hole
+GP100s are built like tanks. Nuf said.
+Less expensive than S&W Revolvers as a whole
+Front sight can be easily swapped on newer 4" GP100s.
+Chambered in a caliber I support

- triggers aren't as nice as S&Ws, but this is a minor consideration as they can still get pretty darn good
- I own a J frame already, so I'd have to consider manual of arms differences + buy an SP101 to offset the J
- Same revolver vs autoloader drawbacks as above

You may want to do a more thorough (in person) comparison between an SP-101 and a J-frame. I don't think you're going to find the SP to be a stand-in for a J-frame since it's a lot bigger and heavier... I also think there's an adjustable Novak version of the Match Champion forthcoming, so you may or may not want to wait on that.

Now is really not the time to get started in using older S&Ws as a "skill building" (i.e. shoot a lot lot) gun...espeically if you consider servicing a 9mm 1911 to be a bridge too far. While they're not delicate snowflakes, mixing "guns I want to shoot a lot" with "guns that can only be serviced by a handful of shops, many of which aren't accepting new work at any given time" is generally not a great idea. AFAIK factory support is not an option if you go back past the early 80s. Maybe even then.

You could pick up 3-4 used 10s from Buds if you want and shoot them until they develop an issue then just pick up another off the pile. That would tide you over for quite awhile I'm sure. But I definitely wouldn't go out and buy a single (relatively expensive) 3" model 13 since you run the risk of it being sidelined for a year or more at a time while you're in someone's backlog (assuming you can even get on the list). And if you use it in a ban state shooting you probably won't get it back, so you'll likely be scouring gunbroker for a few months to get a replacement.

I have other thoughts on S&Ws that would meet your criteria (especially the 986) but there's the 'hillary hole' thing... I've been around the internet enough to know if someone explicitly excludes post-lock revolvers they're generally not interested in discussing the matter further. So I'll save the electrons.

[Nephrology]

I have other thoughts on S&Ws that would meet your criteria (especially the 986) but there's the 'hillary hole' thing... I've been around the internet enough to know if someone explicitly excludes post-lock revolvers they're generally not interested in discussing the matter further. So I'll save the electrons.

I am not wholly opposed to buying internal lock Smiths - I just wouldn't really want to carry one without disabling the lock. Plus - from my limited experience anyhow - I've found that new Rugers are generally better built than new Smiths (in a wholly subjective + unquantifiable way), and are cheaper too - thus it makes me sort of hard up to justify buying an internal lock smith when I can get a revolver as well or better fitted than the Smith for less money, and without an internal lock.

That said I am not so dogmatic as to be unwilling to listen to a counter-argument if you have a good one. I am known to be wrong now and then...

[Hauptmann]

I can make the doublestack 9mm SIGs work with factory plastic grips - if I was to get into SIGs, I'd probably start with a used 9mm P229 and then move into the single stack P225/P239s over time.

Are the new P225s worth the premium over the old used german ones?

I like some of the construction and material aspects of the old W. German P225s. I don't have any experience with the new P225 A-1s, but I am sure that they are of good quality, and you have the benefit of a stainless steel slide. If I were in the market for a P225, I would probably just go new.

[LSP552]

I'd go classic SIG 9mm. I personally hate the larger hump under the decocker on factory 228/229 grips, so G10s would be mandatory for me. Most people love the 228/229 size guns, but I personally prefer the 226 and 239 combo.

[HCM]

Are the new P225s worth the premium over the old used german ones?

Yes, better triggers and the new 225A1 mag is derived off the P239 mags which are more reliable. The mags were a weak point on the old 225.

[Chance]

I will point you towards this thread, where a weekend class turned my total apathy toward revolvers into me buying one the literal next day. Plus, they're compatible with virtually all ban states (so far as I'm aware), and you can easily move up and down in size and caliber and be left with essentially the same gun.

They're not quite the rabbit hole of 1911s, but there's a huge amount of history here that makes learning about these things all the more interesting. I'll leave you with a photo of Darryl's 686 SSR, and photos from another class victim.