Beat someone to death with an ASP or Maglight or stab them with a pen and they bleed out and it sure as hell will be considered Deadly Force.Originally Posted by 45dotACP
More than just carrying them, you also need some amount of training to effectively deploy them in a non-lethal manner.
There is a lawyer and potentially a prosecutor attached to whatever you decide to deploy in defense.
I'm a big fan of pepper spray and a small bright light like the one's from Nitecore and Jetbeam. I think the trained "gun people" and untrained alike can benefit greatly by learning basic awareness and carrying these two things.
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"Run the fuck away" is my current non-faceshoot option. Got too much junk on my belt as it is.
Last edited by Peally; 05-04-2016 at 01:50 PM.
Semper Gumby, Always Flexible
This 100%.
If you're not going to learn to use the front sight properly, don't bother with it. If pointing the gun, screaming "Ahhhhh!" and cranking on the trigger is all you can learn to do, work on doing that safely. -ToddG
I think you need to be sure of how you are defining "non-lethal" in terms of use of force.
You may be using the term to mean force that does not cause death or serious injury, while the law may define it as force which can cause death or serious injury.
A lot of people used to fall into that trap with bio-mechanical cutting when they believed they could use a knife to "humanely disable" an attacker without killing him by severing muscle/tendons that were required for an attack.
We in the legal field call that "maiming" and it's considered serious bodily injury...which is justified only when confronted with lethal force (which, of course, does not mean that is actually causes death, merely that it can...or cause serious bodily injury).
Also, consider what your state calls serious bodily injury.
In Connecticut broken bones or destroyed joints count as serious injury, which means if someone gets an arm bar in a fight and takes it...you can be considered to have caused, “Serious physical injury" which is defined as, "...physical injury which creates a substantial risk of death, or which causes serious disfigurement, serious impairment of health or serious loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ;" Conn. Gen. Stat. Ann. § 53a-3(4).
Then you run into “Deadly physical force” which means, "...physical force which can be reasonably expected to cause death or serious physical injury;" Conn. Gen. Stat. Ann. § 53a-3(5).
So be careful about your choices for "non-lethal" tools because you may run into a situation in which your "non-lethal" but effective tool lands you in some serious trouble.
Even though it is "non-lethal" sometimes it may as well be.
This is why my choice of pen is the Inpax Response Pen. Most defensive pens are designed as half-a**** stabbing instruments. the likelihood of causing a disabling injury with one is quite low, particularly when compared to the potential legal ramifications of having stabbed someone with it.
I prefer a pen that is designed for blunt trauma, so that it is unlikely to break the skin. Whether it is lethal or nonlethal depends on targeting, etc., as well as the other factors Mitchell posted, but the result is more likely to be legally defensible. This pen also includes a glass break that has been tested, and works, against automobile glass. Auto glass is harder than one might imagine. A quick search on YouTube will reveal unsuccessful attempts to break it with baseball bats or even a hammer. Many items marketed as "glass breaks" are unlikely to succeed, but this one will.
Mitchell's point is why I prefer pepper spray as a nonlethal tool. Its effects are known and measured to a much greater degree than a blow with a metal object.
Would you consider a cane?
It is legal in every building on every piece of land in every state. It is nonthreatening and politically correct. It can be carried by the aged or the young (the 14 year old child of one of our tenants has "water on the knee" and walks with a cane). Take it on airplanes, choo-choo trains, public transportation. There are multiple skill sets available for only modest effort: single-stick, escrima, and police straight baton (to name just a few).
YouTube: Dog Brothers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjAkbQb6axU
I am hoping to go a few more decades before I can convincingly walk with a cane. However, an unbreakable umbrella is something I would consider.
I can't read without reading glasses. So I always have a pair of the slim line readers in a metal tube. I've carried them in a number of secure places, because glasses. The tube is strong enough to provide a lot of options as an impact weapon, depending on the target area.
http://www.thriftyspecs.com/Tube-Reading-Glasses.html
I've used properly applied chokes to keep either of us from taking any real damage. Being physically fit and knowing how to fight hand to hand really would be your best bet.
For a woman, I'd suggest at least pepper spray, though I think they'd get away with more because of the disparity of force..
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