Brazilian jiu jitsu or Krav Maga

[jc000]

BJJ x infinity over KM. Sorry.

[SweetScienceOfShooting]

There is definitely a lot of good information in the thread, the only thing I would add from my perspective is to not look at it as either BJJ or Krav. I would strongly suggest to cross train in both if at all possible since quality RBSD training can greatly add to the capabilities that are gained in combat sport training and vice versa. Also, like Nyeti said, quality is very dependant upon the instructor.

In my area, there are a few gyms that offer an RBSD class in addition to the combat sport components of mma. If that is true in your town, then I think that would be the optimal choice. If not, then I would suggest to pick one, and then supplement your training with some time in the other when you can. If going to two different gyms is not workable, you could also go to an occasional seminar like ECQC or Cecil Burch’s IAC. It also could be done by getting some videos and working out with some friends/training partners on your own. For fundamental BJJ with an eye towards self-defense, the Gracie Combatives dvd’s are very good.

I attended a school that was affiliated with KM Worldwide for about a year. They had some fundamental BJJ techniques that were part of the ground self defense curriculum. It isn’t greatly emphasized, but KM will at least get you some exposure to it.

[Dagga Boy]

Can you say a word our two about what you liked in Silat? Those movements always struck me as very strange.

I am not built for most of it...but...the Indonesian stuff is really based on killing folks. I look at things as a balance. Everything you will not see in the UFC is gtg with these guys. A lot of attacks to the eyes, throat, groin, elbows to the back of the head repeatedly, knees to the face and head. If you find video of the backwoods fights in their equivalent of MMA or boxing, it is like the rule book is opposite. It's like extra points for an eye gouge, seven elbows to the back of the head, and four kicks and knees to the groin.

Biggest take from Krav...seemed like everything started with a big kick to the nuts. Want to know what I found hugely effective on the street....starting with a huge boot to the nuts.

I have taken a ton of stuff from lots of different folks. I think it helped not being in a "program". Of everything I have done, I spent more dedicated time in BJJ rolling three days a week for a year. I started and ended as a white belt...because I wasn't there for that. I mainly rolled purple belts and above, and spent a lot of time actually rolling with the instructor because he liked working against a guy who had fifty pounds on him and was very aggressive and not using textbook techniques. I took the nickname "pit bull" as both a ding and compliment. So, I highly recommend BJJ, you just need to find some some things or means to train in using no rules. Your shopping mall Krav place is likely not it, but there are Krav guys who can teach you some exceptional street stuff.

[voodoo_man]

Can you say a word our two about what you liked in Silat? Those movements always struck me as very strange.

Silat, much like other versions of stick/blade/weapon fighting (Kali, etc) are designed to kill people with weapons, but it can translate over to weapon-less armed confrontation (the techniques can be used with weapons or without). It is a good skill set to have and definitely something I would recommend everyone be competent in, especially if you carry a blade for any purpose.

[rojocorsa]

I did KM at a good place for about a year until I had to move away.

Honestly had no idea that some of it was considered less than ideal.

Which parts of KM would these be?

[David S.]

I messed around with a Krav Maga based program several years ago. I think there is a ton of potential value in Krav Maga training. I just don't think it belonged anywhere near the beginning of my journey. I think a background in wrestling, ju jitsu, boxing, and some the other fundamental skills would have made my Krav Maga training much more powerful.

If you haven't done so already, I would suggest getting in to a ECQC type class. I took the class a couple years ago and failed spectacularly, as most people do. On the other hand, I learned what skills were good and what needs improvement. My gun handling and marksmanship were adequate and despite being out of shape, I didn't gas out or feel that strength was particularly an issue. My weakness was a complete lack of experience being in full speed contact with an actively resisting opponent. I've never been in a fight.

On the one hand, my Krav training just didn't prepare me for that. On the other hand, if I had had such experience, I think Krav might add some useful "tools to the toolbox."

I think the Krav vs Jui Jitsu question is ultimately subjective and totally dependent on your individual needs. At this point in my development, I need to be rolling around on a mat with another dude and I need to get punched in the face. Jui jitsu and boxing are probably a better fit for me because they emphasize those things.

YMMV, of course

[/Internet Commando]

Cheers,
David S

[Chance]

Which parts of KM would these be?

The people with more extensive experience would have to correct me, but basically, my observations are that Krav is geared around pre-packaged solutions to curb an initial attack. It seems to do a really good job of generalizing techniques, so that you have one basic technique for multiple scenarios, instead of a custom tailored technique for every conceivable scenario. It's not about beating someone up and winning a fight, necessarily, which I think is why a lot of MMA guys poo-poo it. Again, that's just my observations.

If you find video of the backwoods fights in their equivalent of MMA or boxing, it is like the rule book is opposite. It's like extra points for an eye gouge, seven elbows to the back of the head, and four kicks and knees to the groin.

Are these fights on the Internet? Felony Fights has always been one of my favorite video series for a look into prison rules, although they've gotten so over-produced these days I can barely put up with it.

[Dagga Boy]

Silat, much like other versions of stick/blade/weapon fighting (Kali, etc) are designed to kill people with weapons, but it can translate over to weapon-less armed confrontation (the techniques can be used with weapons or without). It is a good skill set to have and definitely something I would recommend everyone be competent in, especially if you carry a blade for any purpose.

Totally agree and was how I was exposed to it through Steve Tarani. Also, much of the Indonesian stuff is based around small blades that is very in line with what most of us carry daily.

The people with more extensive experience would have to correct me, but basically, my observations are that Krav is geared around pre-packaged solutions to curb an initial attack. It seems to do a really good job of generalizing techniques, so that you have one basic technique for multiple scenarios, instead of a custom tailored technique for every conceivable scenario. It's not about beating someone up and winning a fight, necessarily, which I think is why a lot of MMA guys poo-poo it. Again, that's just my observations.



Are these fights on the Internet? Felony Fights has always been one of my favorite video series for a look into prison rules, although they've gotten so over-produced these days I can barely put up with it.

Excellent post. I found Krav was good for what most earth people need. Some pre loaded responses to attack executed without thinking, and the "everything is a target". I wish there were more really good folks doing some serious Krav two day classes as an add on for folks in regular programs like BJJ. What I loved about BJJ was I could really go work my butt off at near 100% against another human, and it translated really well to cop work. It is the martial art I have actually invested the most into, which says something about where it ranks in my priorities "of things to do". With that said, I did not drink enough kool-aid while there to start poo pooing everything else, and what I found on the street was a lot of my "other stuff" made the submissions and control stuff from BJJ much more effective. I can set a figure two or four leg lock much faster when I drive a steel-toe boot into a dudes nut sack than just trying to set the lock......I didn't learn the boot to the nut sack in BJJ, and it was actually frowned upon....

As far as Pencak fights.....like most stuff, Google and then start looking around on you tube. When you see stuff that has a lot of words that look like jibberish, a ring in the jungle with lots of bamboo, and two refs and every dressed in basically regular clothes....you are there. I will be searching for felony fights..thanks.

[Dismas316]

Guys this is excellent information, exactly what I was looking for. Actually found a Silant training facility (never hear of it until this thread) to far away and seems the guys' been doing this for 20+ years and mentioned they trained LE as well.

[nycnoob]

Guys this is excellent information, exactly what I was looking for. Actually found a Silant training facility (never hear of it until this thread) to far away and seems the guys' been doing this for 20+ years and mentioned they trained LE as well.

You should also talk to Cecil Burch and Paul Sharp before starting Silat training.
I know that both of those peopled studied Silat extensively and no longer practice that art.
They recommend BJJ.