Brazilian jiu jitsu or Krav Maga

[DacoRoman]

For those looking to get into BJJ, look at articles on how to avoid hand injuries. I just gave myself a mallet finger on my dominant hand ring finger. I was tightly gripping my partner's gi sleeve on the outside when he pulled away quickly. Learned the hard way on how gripping the gi (even when done properly) can lead to injuries. I read Keenan Cornelius can't even make a fist because his hands are so messed up!

Now I have to shoot with my support hand for a while and likely will have to miss at least a week on the mats. Don't be like me.

I've never done a grappling art and I would like to start one. Thank you for bringing this point up as it certainly seems worth considering. I come from a San Soo background which emphasizes lots of striking and offensive techniques (groin, eye, jaw hinge, larynx, carotid strikes) and more limited grappling. However a point that was made to me early on is practicing in street clothes and not to place emphasis on GI specific techniques as a likely opponent won't be wearing a GI. But the added point regarding hand injuries when grabbing GI's is something I've not been aware of. Is there a BJJ school or instructors that emphasize grappling in street clothes and not GI's?

[orionz06]

Most schools will have both gi and no-gi classes. I wouldn't discount gi classes though, much of the applicable things done in a gi translate to street clothes.


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[DacoRoman]

Most schools will have both gi and no-gi classes. I wouldn't discount gi classes though, much of the applicable things done in a gi translate to street clothes.


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Good point.

[Default.mp3]

Is there a BJJ school or instructors that emphasize grappling in street clothes and not GI's?

As orionz06 noted, gi BJJ is quite useful. In fact, here's what Cecil Burch wrote over on TPI when I expressed a statement about how I was interested in no-gi, as it appeared to my white-belt mind that the gi introduced artificiality:

Not to sound like I am lecturing, but this is a common misconception and one that is very short-sighted. No-gi has far fewer applications to SD. Most likely any confrontation you get into the guy will be wearing clothes. If you are approached by a naked man (or someone wearing speedos) on the street, I hope you realize quickly that the situation is weird and something weird is going on BEFORE you go hands on. All the gi is, is a economical way of using cloth to fight with. You can do almost everything with people wearing t-shirts. The problem is, you will be going through t-shirts on a regular basis. So instead of having to spend $50 a month to replace shirts, you spend $150 and have clothing that can take all the punishment and last for years. For chokes especially, it is much, much easier to use a t-shirt to get the choke than a gi. My favorite choke from guard works quicker on a t-shirt or rashguard than a gi. People just get irritated when I stretch out their favorite cool guy shirt though/

I know the gut instinct is that no-gi is more SD. Nothing could be further from the truth. Learning to deal with cloth handles, both offensively and defensively is a major plus for SD. Also, no-gi has a tendency to be extremely limited in techniques, and you will lose out on learning a lot of stuff. A big drawback is that no-gi tends to be attribute drive - speed, power, size, etc. - has a much greater impact. Not much help if you are the smaller, weaker, slower person. The gi teaches you how to survive better in that situation.

It is well known and commonly accepted fact that a person with a high level of gi training can drop the gi, go no-gi for a week or two, and compete against the highest level on no-gi competition. The reverse is not true at all.

The gi teaches you to be much more technical. I had wars for years with one of my best friends, Adam Singer of the Hardcore Gym. I would argue that the gi was more technical and you learned far more. Since he was only interested in MMA and a bit of no-gi competition, he disagreed, loudly and longly. Then, as he got a little older, he started wearing the gi, and now agrees that he should have been doing it for years. He thinks all of his guys would have benefited greatly from it.

[NickA]

Cecil just posted a couple of nifty chokes using a T-shirt on his Immediate Action Combatives FB page.

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[DacoRoman]

Cecil just posted a couple of nifty chokes using a T-shirt on his Immediate Action Combatives FB page.

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That's what I'm talking about! Thanks for the heads up.

[DacoRoman]

As orionz06 noted, gi BJJ is quite useful. In fact, here's what Cecil Burch wrote over on TPI when I expressed a statement about how I was interested in no-gi, as it appeared to my white-belt mind that the gi introduced artificiality:

Point taken. I will keep an open mind, although admittedly my bias is toward skepticism regarding techniques which necessitate GI's to pull off well, as most street clothes can easily rip when GI strength force is applied to them, especially T shirts. Some shirts I guess could take strong lapel grabs, but not like a GI of course. Anyway, I get what you guys are saying about not getting one's jeans in a wad about the whole Gi thing and realizing that one can still learn good things, GI or not, including getting to learn more technical things as well.

[orionz06]

Point taken. I will keep an open mind, although admittedly my bias is toward skepticism regarding techniques which necessitate GI's to pull off well, as most street clothes can easily rip when GI strength force is applied to them, especially T shirts. Some shirts I guess could take strong lapel grabs, but not like a GI of course. Anyway, I get what you guys are saying about not getting one's jeans in a wad about the whole Gi thing and realizing that one can still learn good things, GI or not, including getting to learn more technical things as well.

Shirts don't rip enough and when done right they really don't rip at all. A gi choke is also much slower than a shirt choke.

[Mr_White]

I only have very little BJJ background, but my first training was no-gi. Then I went to a gi school, and couldn't get a damn thing done. Being able to grab gi/clothing was a huge giant factor. If/when I get back to it, I definitely want gi training.

[Mitch]

Gi training teaches you things about control, leverage, and defense that are much harder (not impossible) to learn training exclusively no-gi. When I started I trained about 5 days a week on average, one of which was no-gi. I think that's a pretty good mix.


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