IDPA & Calibers - Thread Split

[jar]

I do think the PF for CDP should be 170 at least, no more of this nancy-boy 165 PF.

I like that the power factors are the same between IDPA and USPSA and think they should stay that way.

[jetfire]

Why? I can't think of anyone I know who shoots Single Stack and CDP who doesn't load to at least a 170 PF "just in case."

[ToddG]

Given that the expected disparity between CDP, ESP, and SSP rarely manifests, how about just having two simple semiauto divisions:

• 10rd capacity, 125 PF
• 8rd capacity, 165 PF

Seriously, if this is the biggest issue the "Tiger Teams" see, then they're missing the forest.

[jetfire]

That would be WAAAAY too simple.

The Tiger Teams are actually set up to address a number of different issues. There are separate teams for everything from re-writing the rulebook, divisions/classification, equipment, and even social media and online engagement. I think it's more that shooters tend to get hung up on having their pet cartridge legalized for division X or division Y.

[KeeFus]

I do think the PF for CDP should be 170 at least, no more of this nancy-boy 165 PF.

I've had more people ask me what the hell I was thinking when I wrote that. I actually took it from Vickers @ the Carolina Cup. He mentioned that when they originally started IDPA they debated about the PF for CDP. Ultimately Bill ended the discussion...and 165,000 it is. I really don't get why other calibers have never been allowed in CDP...unless it's a penis envy thing.

He also mentioned that the tac-load or RWR was not intended to be used in IDPA the way it is now. It was originally intended to keep you hot between stages. Somehow, that got screwed up as well. Unless MD's are given that discretion they (IDPA) will never make ranges hot so that's a non-issue.

In all seriousness though, if it stays the same I will have no heartburn over it...since I'm shooting CDP this year (2012) what I should do is have a buddly load me up some that just surpass the PF...nah, I just can't do it.

[Wheeler]

Back when this issue came up 10 years ago, I bought a .400 CorBon barrel and dies and challenged all the 10mm guys to show up at the Nationals with their 10mms to show me what they've got. What a waste of money; not a one had enough balls to stand and deliver. I was the only one at the 2001 Nationals with that flavor of gun. The 10mm never was competitive and never will be. They're no worse off in ESP than they were in CDP. It was all about 'mine is bigger (more powerful) than yours.'

Those loudmouths were no better than the Occupiers; just rabble rousers full of hot air.

The Pathetic Ancient Religion at its worst.

I remember that Headhunter. THat was also about the time I gave serious consideration to buying a Coonan for the same reason. Fortunately I saved my money. Too bad the egos get in the way of the sport sometimes.

[DocGKR]

Stupid games with illogical rules that do not reflect reality...

[jlw]

Given that the expected disparity between CDP, ESP, and SSP rarely manifests, how about just having two simple semiauto divisions:

• 10rd capacity, 125 PF
• 8rd capacity, 165 PF

If off the shelf 9mm ammo would reach the 125pf readily, I would go along with this. I mentioned something similar above with four divisions with a stock and a modified in each power factor, but when it comes down to it, if your classification system is valid, what difference does a magwell really make?

[ToddG]

He mentioned that when they originally started IDPA they debated about the PF for CDP. Ultimately Bill ended the discussion...and 165,000 it is.

You have to remember that in the beginning you had to make power factor out of your gun. Since the idea was to encourage folks to shoot the compact guns they most often carried in real life, the power floor had to be low.

I really don't get why other calibers have never been allowed in CDP...unless it's a penis envy thing.

Very specifically, because the belief was that a 10mm loaded to the power floor would be far easier to shoot -- and probably more reliable -- than a .45 loaded to the power floor, and as such 10mm would dominate CDP. Since CDP was set up "for the 1911 guys" to begin with, it made sense that it be written around the .45 instead of other calibers. In fairness to IDPA, changing the rule would have catered to the three guys who actually carried 10mm and a bunch of gamers who were willing to go out and buy new guns. It would have hurt the 99% of 1911 guys who already owned and shot .45-cal guns.

He also mentioned that the tac-load or RWR was not intended to be used in IDPA the way it is now. It was originally intended to keep you hot between stages.

The first class I ever took from Ken Hackathorn was right around the time IDPA was getting off the ground. He commented back then that IDPA would do for the tac load what IPSC had done for the speed reload: make it into a religion that people thought was the only right way.

If off the shelf 9mm ammo would reach the 125pf readily,

What off the shelf 9mm ammo won't make 125pf out of a G34? That's all your ammo is required to do. It doesn't have to make PF out of your gun. It has to make PF out of the gun with the longest legal barrel for the division. Presently that is a G34 for both ESP and SSP.

[jar]

Why? I can't think of anyone I know who shoots Single Stack and CDP who doesn't load to at least a 170 PF "just in case."

If the PF is 170, then people will need to load to 175 for safety.

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