The striker fired/LEM mechanisms appear to have supplanted the traditional DA/SA autoloader in the hands of LEOs and others. Can a case be made for selecting a DA/SA over the alternatives?
The striker fired/LEM mechanisms appear to have supplanted the traditional DA/SA autoloader in the hands of LEOs and others. Can a case be made for selecting a DA/SA over the alternatives?
I have always said that DA/SA auto's make great prisoner taking guns, and require a lot more work to shoot them effectively in a fight (or in general). I carried a DA/SA .45 ACP. auto for a majority of my L/E career. The reality was I took far more people into custody at gunpoint than I ever shot. When shooting was required, the folks I trained did exceptionally well in shootings, BUT we had spent a ton of time working on the DA/SA transition. I know that Todd and the many stellar shooters he has been around have been able to master the DA/SA, it just requires more work, and is less forgiving. For those who have not mastered trigger finger discipline, fear control, sympathetic squeeze, and other issues, DA/SA guns are slightly better at being more forgiving of mistakes than some other designs. You then have the issue of post shooting problems with forgetting to de-cock under stress. Basically, with training the DA/SA system can work and work well. Some of the best handguns ever made utilize this system. You just have to fit the plusses and minuses to your individual needs and training. Unlike many trainers, I have had enough exposure to these guns and been successful with them in both shooting people and matches to not totally discount them. I also understand that they take dedicated work to master. Unfortunately, these guns are often issued to actually avoid the work to shoot them well, and issued with the idea of not shooting. Hardware over software is always a disaster waiting to happen.
So, no?
Depends on your individual needs. I am still regularly using an HK45C Variant 1. Do I "shoot" it better than my Glock or 1911's....no. Do I prefer it pointing at my family jewels than the other two-yes. Do I prefer it to any Glock for being in a bag or off-body in a home or location with kids-yes. Am I more comfortable with my options in a physical confrontation with it-yes (remember, pistol fights and fist fights are often inter related). Essentially, I prefer the handling characteristics of my V1 HK over most other guns, but prefer the shooting characteristics of a single trigger operation handgun. What is more important to you will dictate what is better.Originally Posted by doctorpogo
I think the DA/SA is unfairly maligned, primarily by folks whose entire shooting career has revolved around the 1911 and Glock. They cannot shoot a DA/SA gun well and so they assume it's the gun's fault and not their own. A SIG with the short reset modification ("SRT") is one of the most shootable guns I've ever used.
nyeti is absolutely correct, it does take more effort to master a DA pistol. However, that "more" can be considerably minimized if you learn how to run the gun properly as opposed to having an instructor tell you to buy a Glock instead.
Working on the DA stroke of a DA/SA pistol forces you to develop great trigger control. This makes it much easier to transition to another gun, whereas many people who have lived their lives with 5# (or less) triggers often struggle to shoot a DA/SA well. I've even seen folks who've picked up a SIG or HK and thought the gun was broken because it didn't go off when they lightly brushed against the trigger.
Once you fire that first DA stroke, the SA on most DA/SA guns is lighter (and often shorter) than the consistent trigger pull on competing guns. So you have to learn to make that first shot, but afterwards the gun is in Easy Mode.
It's also extremely important to make decocking the pistol a purely subconscious act. There are different schools of thought on this, but I decock the pistol whenever it dismounts from the target (i.e., it moves into my ready position).
Holy crap.....more Todd agreement. Ditto on the de-cock. I trained my people to de-cock every time their gun came off target/suspect....even if they did not shoot. This tended to make it automatic when it happened for real. The only issue I am having now is that mastering the first DA shot with my arthritic hands is really tough. Luckily, I am at the point in life where I will hopefully not have to ever use a pistol again to save mine or someone elses life. I still train more than most active duty cops, but I have come to the point that how a gun handles and carries is more important than how it shoots. We are talking about marginal differences. Keep in mind that there are still a lot of very skilled front line gunfighters and elite units using DA/SA pistols to do God's work.
Why do we have to have an argument for a platform? I have been running DA/SA for the last two years, exclusively and have zero problems.
In my experience I have found that running a DA/SA P30V3 has improved my fundamentals and overall ability. I started on a Glock 26, then an HK USP, then 3 different makes and calibers of the much maligned XD striker fired, back to a Glock and now I have moved onto the P30 V3. All my guns have had around 20K rounds through them and I will say that with the short time and low round count (relative terms, I know) I have had on the P30 V3, my (measured) overall ability has improved. It is different than striker fired guns, weather or not being different translates to "bad" is determined by the shooter. I feel it revealed some deficiencies in my overall technique that had remained masked and I was able to address and correct them. Did that correction time require commitment on my part? Yes. Did it take range time and rounds? Yes. Can I make the case for DA/SA over the alternatives? For me in my situation, hell yes. As previously stated, each shooter needs to carefully weigh what is important and look at all factors, whatever those may be.
Taking a break from social media.
I carried a S&W 4006 for seven years. I don't feel that I was ever handicapped by the mechanism. Granted, when training new shooters not having to teach the transition and decocking is easier.
I'm not a fan of beretta type guns for teaching extreme novices(marines). seems like they picked a gun with a 10lb first pull and a safety that's too far back and flips the wrong way so it would be harder to nd . Why where d/s guns even invented?
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