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Thread: Winchester Model 12

  1. #31
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    If you buy one, make certain that it functions properly and is not likely to require repair. Parts must be fitted; few today are qualified to work on one; and repairs will be expensive. For me the Model 12 is too expensive for an out of state travel gun. Another reason not to travel with one is that its attractiveness might tempt others to confiscate it for personal use. Yes, this practice still exists, although not to the extent that it once did.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeep45238 View Post
    This one has a long barrel with a flash-can looking item at the end of the barrel that accepts chokes and has a bead on the top. I’m sorely tempted to make the whole package more handy, but I really don’t want to mess with history either. Is this setup a rare breed, or a common-aftermarket to take different chokes?
    Does it look something like this?
    Name:  Winchester-Model-12-Cutts.jpg
Views: 2465
Size:  53.4 KB
    Google "Cutts Compensator". They don't all look exactly alike, and the tighter chokes are longer. Could also be a "Poly-Choke". I have no idea if it's factory, but I'm sure Google can tell you that as well.

    I have also wrestled with the messing with history dilemma. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. If the gun is not historically significant, and you're not going to use it as-is, does anybody but you care? For example...I have my Grandfather's Remington 722 in 222 Rem. It was the rifle my Grandfather/Dad/Uncles shot 2200 rounds through in one summer, as calculated by the empty powder can generated during that time. My Dad figures it has 15,000 rounds through it. A borescope reveals the throat is ok and doesn't look to have 15,000 rounds, but the 4" closest to the muzzle are trashed. The current accuracy is not up to par with what it used to do, so it just sits in the cabinet. If I don't shoot it, my daughters won't give a rat's ass about another rifle in the cabinet, they never knew my Grandfather. I'm debating spending way too much money to have the barrel rebored and bolt converted to a short action hunting round so my daughters can use it, and will therefore treasure it. The problem is that the money to modify the old 722 would buy each of them a Tika/Howa/Savage in 6.5 Creedmore. Since I'm a sentimental fool, it is still sitting in the cabinet, same as it ever was for the past 18 years I've had it.
    Last edited by Toonces; 03-27-2018 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Grammar is hard.

  3. #33
    For Ss and Gs I checked Numrich, and a replacement 12 gauge barrel for a Model 12 starts at something like $145...
    Recovering Gun Store Commando. My Blog: The Clue Meter
    “It doesn’t matter what the problem is, the solution is always for us to give the government more money and power, while we eat less meat.”
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  4. #34
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    Dec 2015
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    Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Toonces View Post
    Does it look something like this?
    Name:  Winchester-Model-12-Cutts.jpg
Views: 2465
Size:  53.4 KB
    Google "Cutts Compensator". They don't all look exactly alike, and the tighter chokes are longer. Could also be a "Poly-Choke". I have no idea if it's factory, but I'm sure Google can tell you that as well.

    I have also wrestled with the messing with history dilemma. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. If the gun is not historically significant, and you're not going to use it as-is, does anybody but you care? For example...I have my Grandfather's Remington 722 in 222 Rem. It was the rifle my Grandfather/Dad/Uncles shot 2200 rounds through in one summer, as calculated by the empty powder can generated during that time. My Dad figures it has 15,000 rounds through it. A borescope reveals the throat is ok and doesn't look to have 15,000 rounds, but the 4" closest to the muzzle are trashed. The current accuracy is not up to par with what it used to do, so it just sits in the cabinet. If I don't shoot it, my daughters won't give a rat's ass about another rifle in the cabinet, they never knew my Grandfather. I'm debating spending way too much money to have the barrel rebored and bolt converted to a short action hunting round so my daughters can use it, and will therefore treasure it. The problem is that the money to modify the old 722 would buy each of them a Tika/Howa/Savage in 6.5 Creedmore. Since I'm a sentimental fool, it is still sitting in the cabinet, same as it ever was for the past 18 years I've had it.
    Very similar - chevron shaped slots on the side if my memory serves me right. Thanks for the info, I wasn't sure where to start on that one. Might also be a reason to leave as is and start shooting trap weekly with it.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Malamute View Post
    If you find one that's sloppy loose, don't panic, they had an adjustment to take up wear. I bought one that was so loosey goosey it looked unsafe to shoot to most. I looked at it and realized there was a lot of adjustment left, and bought it fairly cheap. I think it took 2 or 3 notches of adjustment to snug up, and should be good for another 70 years or so of use, maybe more if kept snug instead of letting it get loose and shooting it. Its a 5 minute job with a swiss army knife or plain screwdriver to tighten one up.

    The sliding plate with small teeth on the end is the adjuster. The screw is loosened, the lock plate is pulled back, the barrel collar turned slightly to the next tooth, plate pushed back in, and check it. I haven't seen any so far that were anywhere near the end of their adjustment.
    Just keep in mind that if it runs out of adjustment, you need to replace the barrel. I don't know what's involved there but I know it isn't a drop-in job. Not to mention the fact that the Model 12 went out of production in '64 so finding replacement parts is trickier than for a modern gun.

    Almost all of the wear on that joint comes from taking the gun down, not shooting it. I grew up shooting trap, and a BUNCH of the guys were Model 12 fans; they would almost never take their guns down because they didn't want to wear out the barrel.
    Last edited by perlslacker; 07-21-2018 at 03:31 PM.

  6. #36
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    This makes me curious, if the "old wisdom" was based in fact or legend and assumption. Mine was a 1920s gun. I got it in the early or mid 90s, I adjusted it then, and not since. Its easily been taken down far more times than rounds fired since I got it, and hasnt loosened up any. I suspect the hardest thing on them is shooting them once they get loose at all, but most dont know to adjust them and keep them tight, which I believe accelerates the beating and loosening. I seriously doubt taking it apart puts much serious wear on it, especially if it has any lubrication. I just cant see how it stresses it much. Other moving parts in guns dont wear much from repeated movement, even acton parts.

  7. #37
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    Mar 2012
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    Texas
    Agreed. My Model 12 was made in 1928, and gets taken down a lot. It's why I bought it. It's not uncommon on a single road trip for it to be disassembled and reassembled a dozen times.

    It seems to be working just fine.

  8. #38
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Dec 2011
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    Dunedin, FL, USA
    If you really want a spare Model 12 barrel, try Corson's Barrels at https://www.corsonsbarrels.com/winchesterbarrels.htm A 21-inch barrel choked Cylinder is $250. Not inexpensive, but it allows you to not cut on the original barrel.

    I bought my first Model 12 in 1989, and it is a pre-WWII gun with an aftermarket Simmons rib and a Cutts Compensator. It was a state-of-the-art skeet gun when the rib was added, probably in the 1950s. Barrel is still not worn out and has plenty of adjustment. It is mostly retired as I shoot my 870 when I shoot skeet with a pump.

    One thing for the Model 12 is no steel and no tungsten shot.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Malamute View Post
    This makes me curious, if the "old wisdom" was based in fact or legend and assumption. Mine was a 1920s gun. I got it in the early or mid 90s, I adjusted it then, and not since. Its easily been taken down far more times than rounds fired since I got it, and hasnt loosened up any. I suspect the hardest thing on them is shooting them once they get loose at all, but most dont know to adjust them and keep them tight, which I believe accelerates the beating and loosening. I seriously doubt taking it apart puts much serious wear on it, especially if it has any lubrication. I just cant see how it stresses it much. Other moving parts in guns dont wear much from repeated movement, even acton parts.
    fair enough. I admit, I haven't really taken mine down for fear of wearing it out.

  10. #40
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
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    Northern Rockies
    I suspect, from the ones Ive seen, that theres more than 1 lifetime of shooting in the adjustment range. Mine was less than halfway through the range when I snugged it up. It looks like its had a long and hard life, but still chugging along.

    I do think it could be a thing with the Winchester takedown rifles, as the adjustments arent as mechanically solid as the model 12s, and a shotgun isnt dealing with the same level of accuracy issue a rifle could be if the barrel to receiver junction wasnt firm enough. Could have been where the reluctance to take them down came from?

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