Arizona sheriff hopes Russian-designed rubber-bullet handgun will save lives

[Wendell]

On Tuesday, the Pinal County Sheriff’s Office said it would become the nation’s first police agency at any level to use the Osa handgun, a Russian-designed four-chamber break-action pistol that uses a laser target pointer and shoots rubber bullets. With a less lethal option, Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu said, the number of deaths will fall. The rounds have blunt edges and are not designed to pierce. In addition to Russia, the weapon is also used in Israel and Brazil. The weapon can also fire flares, pepper-gel bullets and flash-bang rounds, which do not discharge a shot but produce a deafening noise and blinding light. Despite the weapon’s intimidating look and violent purpose, Babeu said he expects it to save lives. “This is a national conversation that's going on,” Babeu said, “and it's not going well for law enforcement.”
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...124-story.html

[Default.mp3]

Guns that fire rubber bullets attained brief notoriety in Russia after an argument about the merits of philosopher Immanuel Kant in a southern Russian bar devolved into violence in October 2013. One man fired several rubber bullets at his philosophical opponent, who was injured but not killed.

That's fucking gangsta as fuck.

I wonder how these stack up against bean bag rounds. I have heard that the 12 gauge bean bag rounds have been something of a resounding failure, while the 40mm ones generally work pretty well. I can't imagine this particular contraption working too well against a motivated opponent, which I suppose was never their raison d'être, but then that brings up how an officer is suppose to be able to reliably categorize the level of opposition they will receive.

[Totem Polar]

"The rubber bullets from the Osa, named for the Russian word for “wasp,” strike targets with the force of a person swinging a baseball bat or a punch from a professional boxer..."

I dunno... sounds like one could make a reverse argument that criminal use of an Osa would justify lethal force in response. The irony...


At some point, we as a society are going to have to come to grips with the choices: either more crime, more people getting shot, or more broken bones (eg, reissue saps and truncheons). Pick one of the three.

[P30]

either more crime, more people getting shot, or more broken bones (eg, reissue saps and truncheons). Pick one of the three.

I pick #4: More social justice.

[Totem Polar]

I pick #4: More social justice.

Can you define that for me?

[voodoo_man]

For the love of anything American, please do not use anything Russian as force against the citizenry.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

When I googled the gun - there was a case of a person getting hit in the temple close up and ending in vegetative state. That would make a criminal use one that could justify lethal force as a response.

[shane45]

I get that in the scenario of a bad shoot, the shootee surviving is a good thing due to the bullet being rubber, but I cant help but feel that the bad guy/shootee returning fire with real rounds shooting the officer is going to be the more frequent outcome. If there is time to decide which tool to use, it would seem the taser and the shotgun loaded with less than lethals are already appropriate options?

[BehindBlueI's]

Russian-designed

Other than vodka and...well..uh, other vodkas, I don't know I'd use "Russian designed" as a selling point for anything. Oh, those little nesting doll things. Maybe bears on unicycles. Maybe. Mostly just vodka and the nesting dolls.

What we talking about? Oh, right, rubber bullets. So, more dangerous than a Taser or existing pepperball gun, but less dangerous than a firearm. Seems to occupy a very very limited niche, even if it works as advertised.

[Chuck Haggard]

Firing something smaller and lighter than a 12 gauge bean-bag round I'll assume that this thing will be less effective.