Interesting - how did they say he said to do it?Originally Posted by BigT
Interesting - how did they say he said to do it?
I tried this with a SIRT. Isosceles, high grip on the gun, hard clam shell grip on posterior aspect of grip with the thenar portion of hands, as well as a melt type of 360 degree crush grip on he gun, wrists locked and arms in isometric tension, elbows slightly down. And then on top of all that, I added just a touch of push with the dominant upper extremity and and pull with the support upper extremity.
It Felt like it was the extra few % points of force and stability that may have been missing from a truly solid grip. I was able to work my SIRT trigger just as fast and didn't notice any aberrant influence on the trigger. So I'm intrigued.
I will try to do some practice this Sunday live fire and see what happens.
I've also signed up for a John McPhee class this June.
It's funny I just did a Hackathorn class this last weekend and a real nice gentleman that was a former FAM told me about how good McPhee's video diagnostics class was. I hadn't heard of him before. So I looked him up. And then lo and behold this thread pops up.
Lots of good responses. Thanks guys.
I should have indicated in the thread title that I'm specifically referring to push/pull action in a contemporary thumbs forward grip/stance.
It's funny that you mention Paul Sharp. I had started shifting my firing hand around more directly behind the gun as Paul reccomends here https://youtu.be/F6KjE6Ic5ds . This video, and some of Paul's other videos, reminded me of stuff I had heard from John McPhee, so I started catching up on John's podcasts. They both seem to be of a mind that grip is far more fundamentally important than trigger control.
Last edited by frozentundra; 04-09-2016 at 12:14 AM.
I have as well! That combined with adding a push/pull - like mentioned earlier as an addition to a thumbs forward grip with a full wrist lock of the non firing hand - has really started to help me with consistency.
Another aspect that it really helped me with was anticipation. It is something I consistently struggle with, but when I really grip hard, lock up in a ISO with a push/pull, any bit of anticipation I even may have is minimized much better than if my elbows are bent.
I posted this after McPhee's class but for those interested, this is a bit of an example of his video analysis. I really enjoyed and learned from it quite a bit.
Interesting analysis - I'll have to bust out Coachseye and run a few Bill Drills...
Activating the shoulders so much makes it difficult to hold tight to things - a more neutral stance and grip without "camming" the wrist might actually help the support hand keep a hold on the pistol, which would limit the "separation" that's happening. That alone might keep the gun steady...
There is a video of Jerry Miculek explaining that he had to abandon the Weaver push/pull grip
because he found it slower and less repeatable than the standard isosceles.
(Jerry has way too many videos now for me to find the right one.)
My understanding is that many people switched from Weaver to Isoscles after attending
Rogers shooting school back in the day. People could not keep up. I had a book on this
subject years ago, but I do not remember who wrote it, it had little other information in it.
No detail but..
I believe if you google jerry miculek how to shoot a pistol he has a 25 minute video that covers the grip and stance in depth.
i used to wannabe
Two questions:
1) it seems like Stoeger doesn't want 100% grip strength in the shooting hand, but never gives a qualifier. Such as "grip the gun hand with only enough strength to hold it and let your support hand do the rest."
Do any of you know his qualifier?
2) when I first shot, almost 30 years ago, weaver and push/pull were the doctrine, but now that I look at it through the lens of my last 8 years of actual study, it seems the push/pull would not be as good if I needed to shoot along the horizontal line of the presentation, no?
Just curious. TIA
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Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.
I think 4:00 and 4:50 summarize it pretty well. It is a results-based approach: If you're gripping so hard that you get trigger freeze with the strong hand, it is too much.
Ok. I was hoping for something I could recognize in dry fire, but that makes sense.
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Fairness leads to extinction much faster than harsh parameters.
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