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Thread: Problems reported with Lipseys Combat Operator 9mm

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    Let me get this straight. You bought a gun called a "Combat Operator" and it is giving some problems? Inconceivable!
    The worst part is, I had, of all things a Kimber 9 mm 1911 which actually ran and shot very well.

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    Last edited by HCM; 04-04-2016 at 09:49 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    The worst part is, I had, of all things a Kimber 9 mm 1911 which actually ran and shot very well.

    Attachment 7014
    I would never admit in public that I like Kimber's, but I have 2 of their 1911's and they have both been fantastic. I've lost count of how many of their rifles I have or have had.

  3. #23
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    The worst part is, I had, of all things a Kimber 9 mm 1911 which actually ran and shot very well.

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    I think Digiroc has now invaded this thread, posing as HCM.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    I think Digiroc has now invaded this thread, posing as HCM.
    I actually had three problematic Kimber 45's in a row. They were all accurate, but all had reliability problems. I didn't really want the camber 9 mm but it was the only 9 mm 1911 I could find at the time.

    The Kimber 45 problems were also what lead me to get the MC operator 45. Maybe I just got lucky with that one but it's been accurate and very reliable straight out-of-the-box.

  5. #25
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    After having several 9x19 1911 pistols built, discussing the system with a really good smith, and loading/shooting lots of 9x19 ammo, I learned the following:

    1) There is very little margin of error for the 9x19 in the 1911. Tolerance changes that are meaningless to the .45 ACP will induce issues with the 9x19. This includes friction from finishes, rough machining, and shooting detritus like unburned powder. 9x19 1911 pistols should be finished with a high lubricity finish. I have had good luck with hard chrome, NP3, and polished bluing and less luck with Parkerizing. Zero luck with my single experience with a shooting buddy's gun finished with Cerakote. This is part of the reason why some guns run with 13# springs and others need 10# springs with the same load.
    2) The magazine design for the 9x19 1911 is not optimal because it promotes nose diving, especially from a fully-loaded magazine. Magazines and barrel ramp styles combine to make a gun very sensitive to magazine type. A 9x19 with a Colt barrel will likely need different magazines that one with a Wilson/Nowlin barrel due to how the bullet hits the ramp.
    3) The 9x19 in the 1911 needs to be loaded long although Wilson Combat's latest magazine seems to reduce that requirement. I still have better luck loading 9x19 long.
    4) The recoil impulse of the 9x19 is marginal for cycling the five-inch 1911 slide. This interacts with the recoil spring, mainspring, hammer, and firing pin stop.
    5) The 9x19 1911 can be tuned for bullet mass/shape/velocity within a narrow window. It will be reliable within that range and not very reliable outside of it. For those used to a Glock 17 or HK P30 that runs with just about any 9x19 rounds, this is not that.
    6) Special attention needs to be paid to the firing pin stop, hammer, and mainspring as these parts play a huge role in how fast the 1911 unlocks. A flat bottom firing pin stop should not be used as the firing pin stop needs as much leverage as possible on the hammer.

    You have to be willing to fiddle with the 9x19 in the 1911 to keep it running. I have three I use, all of which see different loads and use different magazines.
    Last edited by farscott; 04-05-2016 at 04:15 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by VolGrad View Post
    The note I put in the box included the following;

    Issues;
    • Erratic ejection – forward, sideways, in my face
    • Sluggish slide – can feel the entire motion when it cycles
    • Heavy trigger – not sure what they are supposed to measure at but this is heavy
    • Over 150rds of 124gr ball ammo had multiple stovepipes & failures to return to battery (light touch to rear of slide would send it the rest of the way – this makes sense considering how sluggish the slide feels)
    • POI is at least 4” low at 10yrds – consistently low, I didn’t try multiple distances
    Other than the POI issue and feeling sluggish this sounds like 3 of my last 4 Glocks... The fact that they're $500 pistols instead of $1500 pistols doesn't buy much with me since the time spent correcting and validating is worth more than the initial outlay. To say nothing of the ammo cost... Yes, it's irritating. Irritating is the new normal when buying new guns.

    Other people said it, but I think it bears repeating: a 5" 9mm 1911 is going to feel "sluggish" unless you do something extreme with slide lightening. My 5" RO 9mm had a distinct period during recoil where I could almost feel the slide bottom out against the frame, sit there for a second, and then return to battery. My 4" RO compact 9mm feels much, much more normal.

    My functional understanding of the 1911 is limited at best. But farscott mentioned some critical things I've heard over and over. The firing pin stop on a 9mm can't be squared off at the bottom. A slick finish helps a lot. And if your gun didn't come with these buy them. My 5" RO did but I have no idea how much / how often they change up the OEM magazines.

    People that know more than me have made a big deal about not just the magazines but the front ramped 9 round Metalform 9mm magazines (and now I guess the new CMC 10 rounders) for me to notice. I know ETMs are the golden child and have a great reputation in .45, but I've yet to hear why the solution to 9mm nose dives is to just open up the front of the mag so the bullet can hit the feed ramp too low. To a Neanderthal like me the ramped design seems obvious. I'm keen to hear an alternate explanation, because it does seem more likely that it's me misunderstanding the situation than so many otherwise knowledgeable people keep buying a product that doesn't really fix the underlying issue. But, I digress.

    Also, my ROC had a finish reamer put through it and it pulled out a bunch of metal. Several people on 1911forum had the same issue. So you might call and ask them to add that to the checklist too.

  7. #27
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecondsCount View Post
    The slides will feel sluggish on 5" 9mm pistols.

    When it comes to accuracy, my Springfield Loaded 9mm is sensitive to different loadings and likes 124 much better than 115 grain ammo. Gun runs great with ball and most hollowpoints including Gold Dot but there are a couple bullet profiles that it doesn't like.
    Back before I had a 2nd shooter replicate some issues, I fired a couple magazines of Hornady 135 grain Critical Duty and it cycled more smoothly and exhibited much better groups. A couple thousand of those is pretty pricey.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by farscott View Post
    After having several 9x19 1911 pistols built, discussing the system with a really good smith, and loading/shooting lots of 9x19 ammo, I learned the following:

    1) There is very little margin of error for the 9x19 in the 1911. Tolerance changes that are meaningless to the .45 ACP will induce issues with the 9x19. This includes friction from finishes, rough machining, and shooting detritus like unburned powder. 9x19 1911 pistols should be finished with a high lubricity finish. I have had good luck with hard chrome, NP3, and polished bluing and less luck with Parkerizing. Zero luck with my single experience with a shooting buddy's gun finished with Cerakote. This is part of the reason why some guns run with 13# springs and others need 10# springs with the same load.
    2) The magazine design for the 9x19 1911 is not optimal because it promotes nose diving, especially from a fully-loaded magazine. Magazines and barrel ramp styles combine to make a gun very sensitive to magazine type. A 9x19 with a Colt barrel will likely need different magazines that one with a Wilson/Nowlin barrel due to how the bullet hits the ramp.
    3) The 9x19 in the 1911 needs to be loaded long although Wilson Combat's latest magazine seems to reduce that requirement. I still have better luck loading 9x19 long.
    4) The recoil impulse of the 9x19 is marginal for cycling the five-inch 1911 slide. This interacts with the recoil spring, mainspring, hammer, and firing pin stop.
    5) The 9x19 1911 can be tuned for bullet mass/shape/velocity within a narrow window. It will be reliable within that range and not very reliable outside of it. For those used to a Glock 17 or HK P30 that runs with just about any 9x19 rounds, this is not that.
    6) Special attention needs to be paid to the firing pin stop, hammer, and mainspring as these parts play a huge role in how fast the 1911 unlocks. A flat bottom firing pin stop should not be used as the firing pin stop needs as much leverage as possible on the hammer.

    You have to be willing to fiddle with the 9x19 in the 1911 to keep it running. I have three I use, all of which see different loads and use different magazines.
    OK then! I'm feeling pretty good now. It's run a couple 115, 124, 135 and 147 grain loads without a malf yet; so I have THAT going for me! Wilson and Chip McCormack mags all mixed together GTG.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  9. #29
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    OK then! I'm feeling pretty good now. It's run a couple 115, 124, 135 and 147 grain loads without a malf yet; so I have THAT going for me! Wilson and Chip McCormack mags all mixed together GTG.
    That is a good sign. Do remember that 9x19 1911 magazines are essentially consumables. I go through them like crazy. In 2015, I think I "File 13'd" about twenty of them. I used to try and replace springs and followers, but it is not much more costly and less time consuming to just replace magazines.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Back before I had a 2nd shooter replicate some issues, I fired a couple magazines of Hornady 135 grain Critical Duty and it cycled more smoothly and exhibited much better groups. A couple thousand of those is pretty pricey.
    I make my own
    -Seconds Count. Misses Don't-

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