OSS Suppressor system: baffle-free design

[Luke]

Why are we getting two different stories from people I believe to be 100% telling the truth?


Safe indoors 338 and not even close to safe?? Which one is it

[Unobtanium]

Why are we getting two different stories from people I believe to be 100% telling the truth?


Safe indoors 338 and not even close to safe?? Which one is it

Considering that no supersonic rifle round is hearing safe indoors...I'd say you have a person with significant hearing loss at the 6000Hz range vs. one who can hear, and both are being honest.

[Unobtanium]

I'll try and help out with the OSS questions...like Nyeti said ear safe indoors, as in 6ft conex 338 Lapua factory ammo one handed...recoiled and sound were almost absent.
The company has had changes, nothing that has impacted their ability to deliver a product.
CSass had 5 entrants 3 of those included the OSS system, so either everyone likes the octagon or the system has merits.
Full disclosure I work for OSS, and Nyeti can vouch, I don't throw my reputation behind everyone employer or not...I worked for the folks who bought Blackhawk and refused to sale the SERPA or the Vietcong knock off products to my customers.
Questions send them I'll answer what I can or get you that answer...
Chad

So you're saying the laws of physics have been put on hold, and the supersonic sound signature of a .30 caliber projectile has been eliminated, by an OSS suppressor?

...or do you mean factory loaded .338 subsonic ammunition...?

ETA: Was gen V significantly improved from Gen 4, regarding ability to maintain integrity?

[Dagga Boy]

I'll try and help out with the OSS questions...like Nyeti said ear safe indoors, as in 6ft conex 338 Lapua factory ammo one handed...recoiled and sound were almost absent.
The company has had changes, nothing that has impacted their ability to deliver a product.
CSass had 5 entrants 3 of those included the OSS system, so either everyone likes the octagon or the system has merits.
Full disclosure I work for OSS, and Nyeti can vouch, I don't throw my reputation behind everyone employer or not...I worked for the folks who bought Blackhawk and refused to sale the SERPA or the Vietcong knock off products to my customers.
Questions send them I'll answer what I can or get you that answer...
Chad

If you are still there.....I can go back to my AUG plan.

People can question my integrity on this....knock yourself out. I have shot a whole bunch of suppressed stuff over a lot of years at a purely operator level. I don't get into all the Db's, or scientific stuff because I am not going to try to figure out the science side, do not care, and have found over a couple decades their is a TON of b.s. Floating around. What I have done is tested, selected and issued stuff for agency use. Have shot a lot of this stuff. Have done full house destructive testing for one manufacture, and seen some very good stuff, and stuff fall apart. Over the years, I have had good results with the Surefire stuff for an issue system. People said they were loud and sucked like everything else. We found they were durable and did what they advertised. Funny.....bunch of military folks found the same thing. I really was not a fan of the OSS stuff. Weird, looked funny, expensive, lots of modules....etc. then I was exposed to them a bunch because Greenmachine and I have been friends for a lot of years. We have done a bunch of professional demo's and the cans work. Trust me, when I am doing stuff with Aimpoint and am sitting on a range for days at many of these demo's with one mag dump after another with folks shooting "free" ammo in other people's guns I have come to appreciate suppressor's. I have seen ALL of them fail at some point. I have seen some brands crap the bed a lot. I have seen some very quiet cans destroy the host gun with too much back pressure causing issues, seen stuff that just was terrible with noise, and stuff that worked well across the board. So far, the OSS stuff has worked well. Again, my only concern now is what is going on internally within the company, but this is also par for the course in the suppressor industry.

I have no idea if the other people commenting have actually sat in an indoor range with no ear pro during an all day demo that includes shooting .338 and .50 along with cases of 5.56 and 7.62, but I have. I have not read the specs from advertising, nor do I much care. I do know from being behind the guns, the OSS cans are downright civil to the folks shooting them compared to other stuff. If someone thinks it is b.s.....go buy a can from the guy who can read Db. numbers and stats, doesn't bother me at all.

[Unobtanium]

If you are still there.....I can go back to my AUG plan.

People can question my integrity on this....knock yourself out. I have shot a whole bunch of suppressed stuff over a lot of years at a purely operator level. I don't get into all the Db's, or scientific stuff because I am not going to try to figure out the science side, do not care, and have found over a couple decades their is a TON of b.s. Floating around. What I have done is tested, selected and issued stuff for agency use. Have shot a lot of this stuff. Have done full house destructive testing for one manufacture, and seen some very good stuff, and stuff fall apart. Over the years, I have had good results with the Surefire stuff for an issue system. People said they were loud and sucked like everything else. Surefire cans meter about 1-3dB louder than AAC cans, according to every 3rd party test I have seen conducted. They are also a wee bit smaller/lighter than the corresponding AAC cans, and have less back-pressure. We found they were durable and did what they advertised. Funny.....bunch of military folks found the same thing. I really was not a fan of the OSS stuff. Weird, looked funny, expensive, lots of modules....etc. then I was exposed to them a bunch because Greenmachine and I have been friends for a lot of years. We have done a bunch of professional demo's and the cans work. Trust me, when I am doing stuff with Aimpoint and am sitting on a range for days at many of these demo's with one mag dump after another with folks shooting "free" ammo in other people's guns I have come to appreciate suppressor's. I have seen ALL of them fail at some point. I have seen some brands crap the bed a lot. I have seen some very quiet cans destroy the host gun with too much back pressure causing issues, seen stuff that just was terrible with noise, and stuff that worked well across the board. So far, the OSS stuff has worked well. Again, my only concern now is what is going on internally within the company, but this is also par for the course in the suppressor industry. I keep getting two stories about OSS. None of which are for public consumption. I guess I would like to see them adopted by someone who has done legit destructive testing, before I spend any money on them. I would also like to see a "generation" last more than a few months before they feel a need to improve the design.

I have no idea if the other people commenting have actually sat in an indoor range with no ear pro during an all day demo that includes shooting .338 and .50 along with cases of 5.56 and 7.62, but I have. I have not read the specs from advertising, nor do I much care. I do know from being behind the guns, the OSS cans are downright civil to the folks shooting them compared to other stuff. If someone thinks it is b.s.....go buy a can from the guy who can read Db. numbers and stats, doesn't bother me at all.

The reason there is a disconnect with the dB data is that OSS is louder at the muzzle, while quieter at the shooter's ear. Most data is 1M 90* the muzzle. Not at the ear. Data taken at the ear shows the AAC Mini 4 as quieter than the AAC M4-SPR, for example. I am not sure what OSS meters at the ear, but the closest competitor likely found is the KAC or SF "mini" cans.

My problem with the OSS is size, durability, complexity, method of attachment, lack of successful "proof" beyond "proof of concept". They allege that their Gen 5 is good to go, but I'm sure they said that about Gen 1-4, as well. Surefire came out with a new can every what, 3-5+ years? Similar with AAC. It was a natural "Oh, we have learned a few things..." type progression. Not a "our shit broke again...we need to fix this ASAP! Throw out Rev. 1.243!" that seems to be, in my opinion, what OSS is doing.

*I have no connection to OSS, all my data is 2nd or 3rd hand, all of the above is just my opinion, and to be taken as such in full disclosure. You know. Because Vuurwapenblog, et. al.

[Dagga Boy]

The reason there is a disconnect with the dB data is that OSS is louder at the muzzle, while quieter at the shooter's ear. Most data is 1M 90* the muzzle. Not at the ear. Data taken at the ear shows the AAC Mini 4 as quieter than the AAC M4-SPR, for example. I am not sure what OSS meters at the ear, but the closest competitor likely found is the KAC or SF "mini" cans.

My problem with the OSS is size, durability, complexity, method of attachment, lack of successful "proof" beyond "proof of concept". They allege that their Gen 5 is good to go, but I'm sure they said that about Gen 1-4, as well. Surefire came out with a new can every what, 3-5+ years? Similar with AAC. It was a natural "Oh, we have learned a few things..." type progression. Not a "our shit broke again...we need to fix this ASAP! Throw out Rev. 1.243!" that seems to be, in my opinion, what OSS is doing.

*I have no connection to OSS, all my data is 2nd or 3rd hand, all of the above is just my opinion, and to be taken as such in full disclosure. You know. Because Vuurwapenblog, et. al.

And you know what......I can totally appreciate all of that, including the concerns. AAC makes a good can......also had the same "internal business issues". I am looking forward to seeing how the LaRue can does. Again, people are looking for lots of different things. A good example was the Surefire stuff. We could always find something quieter....however; for LE use where a team buys a few cans that are shared by an entire team, the small zero change and ease of use were a bigger deal than a couple decibels. For some folks, cost is a huge factor. For many agencies, long term cost is different than short term. An individual will have different wants and factors than a large purchaser for issue equipment. All are factors. Like I said, totally understand that there are different factors. Also, as I said, the OSS is very different and I found them really good when working a line or in a range for comfort behind the gun. No blowback, and the noise is going away from the shooter. How that translates into db's and measurement.......don't know or care. What I do know is "not hearing safe" is not what I found with being around thousands upon thousands of rounds fired with them. I will admit not being in a position to evaluate them "down range" as it isn't in the "what I do" these days job. For military and LE this can be critical.

[Unobtanium]

And you know what......I can totally appreciate all of that, including the concerns. AAC makes a good can......also had the same "internal business issues". I am looking forward to seeing how the LaRue can does. Again, people are looking for lots of different things. A good example was the Surefire stuff. We could always find something quieter....however; for LE use where a team buys a few cans that are shared by an entire team, the small zero change and ease of use were a bigger deal than a couple decibels. For some folks, cost is a huge factor. For many agencies, long term cost is different than short term. An individual will have different wants and factors than a large purchaser for issue equipment. All are factors. Like I said, totally understand that there are different factors. Also, as I said, the OSS is very different and I found them really good when working a line or in a range for comfort behind the gun. No blowback, and the noise is going away from the shooter. How that translates into db's and measurement.......don't know or care. What I do know is "not hearing safe" is not what I found with being around thousands upon thousands of rounds fired with them. I will admit not being in a position to evaluate them "down range" as it isn't in the "what I do" these days job. For military and LE this can be critical.

you're basing "hearing safe" on your personal perception. Have you taken an audiogram lately? if you have not, I strongly encourage you to. I think you will find significant notches in the 55-6500Hz range. The situations you describe finding a can "hearing safe" in, are not physically possible even if the can ELIMINATED muzzle signature and port-blast. It's like when the wheel bearings went out on a vehicle of mine. My father could NOT hear it. I could. Loudly.

I am not arguing that the OSS isn't quieter at the ear than other offerings. It very well might be. I am simply saying that I think personal perception is bunk in "declaring it safe".

Also, my advice to take an audiogram is not meant to be taken as dick comment. I'm being serious. I think if more people were aware of how gunfire affects hearing, they would be safer, enjoy life in their later years more, and suppressors would be legal without a tax stamp in this country like they are in EU. Seriously. Get the audiogram.If you don't want to take the time or money to "do it right", I have found that this online test very closely mirrored the notches in my professional audiograms that I have had done. You can't calibrate it for dB, but you can see if you are suffering losses in various frequencies. My prediction based on your statements is you will see pronounced notches between 5500-6500.
http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html

[Dagga Boy]

I know my hearing sucks. Between typical cop work, range stuff, flash bangs and breaching charges, and four years cuddled up to a turbine engine with a MD-500E as my daily ride and living at an airport....yea, probably not optimal hearing. With that said....I wasn't alone in those ranges. In fact, much of what Greenmachine was doing were demos at ranges for normal earth folks with their goal being to have a suppresor to make shooting comfortable and safer. Noise and blast sent forward met those goals easily. Also, for those folks, not have a face full of "exhaust" coming out the ejection port was a big bonus.

Situation is easy. Don't buy one. I just find this stuff almost funny because when I was doing a ton of stuff with Surefire.....I remember all of the exact same stuff about not being hearing safe, loud, would blow up, and complete crap....usually from folks who didn't sell them.

[Unobtanium]

I know my hearing sucks. Between typical cop work, range stuff, flash bangs and breaching charges, and four years cuddled up to a turbine engine with a MD-500E as my daily ride and living at an airport....yea, probably not optimal hearing. With that said....I wasn't alone in those ranges. In fact, much of what Greenmachine was doing were demos at ranges for normal earth folks with their goal being to have a suppresor to make shooting comfortable and safer. Noise and blast sent forward met those goals easily. Also, for those folks, not have a face full of "exhaust" coming out the ejection port was a big bonus.

Situation is easy. Don't buy one. I just find this stuff almost funny because when I was doing a ton of stuff with Surefire.....I remember all of the exact same stuff about not being hearing safe, loud, would blow up, and complete crap....usually from folks who didn't sell them.

Do as you wish with your hearing. That was just the PSA I feel professionally obligated to offer. What you are doing is damaging your hearing further, I can tell you that for a FACT. I'm not attacking OSS, or pimping a competitor, with that statement, either. It's blanket.

[Greenmachine]

Hearing safe is defined by OSHA as sound below the 140DB reading at the ear. So when I say hearing safe this is my stick I use to measure from. From a shooters right ear our suppressors measure between 134-139 in DB ratings depending on caliber, ammo used, and barrel length.
Durability and maintenance- everything is user serviceable. PM, is even easier because of the design, the gases help push all the trash out the front...is it self cleaning, maybe but so is your bore, and it still gets dirty. Carb cleaner till it drips and a shot to dry it...works every time. The design lends it self to not gather large areas of carbon build up.
Durability- how many rounds should a suppressor work for? I believe all of them...if suppression or accuracy degrade how do you refurb a traditional can? Our you replace the locking block for less than a hundred bucks and the round count is reset..again the design is to not create problems but to just direct the gas forward
Third party testing...hmm well CSASS is a start, there are at least two others which aren't public but should be soon, until then contact Jonesboro PD, Maine state police or ATF, they all have the systems.
I'm here to answer anything I can and to help. The easiest way is for me to come out and do a shoot, take the system for spin yourselves, and see what it can or can't do.
Green
Almost forgot...factory boxed ammo, yes that is what we use. Subsonic 338, where do I buy it, standard velocity is what I use for my demo shoots. Have I shot subs in the past, yes, 10 of them and they were 5 each of 7.62 and 5.56 why only 10, because I have 20 of each and they are damn hard to find.