Would I have to buy a gun magazine to read those. I don't usually do that but I could make an exception.Originally Posted by nyeti
Would I have to buy a gun magazine to read those. I don't usually do that but I could make an exception.
The only long gun I own that is dedicated solely to defensive use is a shotgun.
To make things worse I practice reloads from a butt cuff using my strong side hand.
If y'all want to kick me out I will leave quietly.
No matter how much people, try to pretend that their purchases are 100% about doing ninja shit, in the back of their mind, deep down, real life wants and needs take over.
Ignoring areas where there are legal restrictions beyond the federal level, the AR is sexier, more fun to shoot for most people, offers more opportunities to shoot, and offers far more options for fiddle-fart.
Even in restricted states, depending on the restrictions, things like pistol-caliber carbines, or neutered ARs are still a better overall choice for most people.
Get too restricted, into areas where semi-auto is totally out of the question, and things start to even out. But even still the shotgun is intimidating for most new(er) shooters, and not fun to shoot even for many experienced people.
If the idea is STRICTLY people shooting inside the home, no a out of "fun" shooting at all, and a semi-auto, high capacity, pistol is not an option, and/or there are serious actual budget restraints combined with a serious actual heightened risk or threat, I'd buy an 870.
I appreciate the reasons for LE moving to the patrol rifle because of the variety of circumstances they could conceivably face.
That said for my own use defending my own home I would select a good Semi auto or pump shotgun before an AR never mind a lever gun. I think for the likely scenario in a home invasion scenario the strengths a shotgun brings outweigh the versatility of the carbine. At the distances in my house I can make hits faster with a shotgun than a carbine and those hits are a lot more effective.
But then I am also a weirdo who has moved away from the flight control stuff for use in my house.
Welcome to Africa, bring a hardhat.
Shotguns ARE fun to shoot if you access to the clay target sports --- either a commercial range or a back-pasture portable trap. Mild target loads in a properly fitting gun are comfortable for most folks, and seeing targets break is a huge motivator. Shooting doubles is a great way to learn to run a pump.
I agree that full power buck can be no fun, but there's no need to beat yourself up that way if you just want a basic home defense tool. Shoot enough low-recoil buck to know how it patterns, and use inexpensive target loads for most of your practice/fun shooting.
Those of you doing serious work with shotguns are in a different league.
In my opinion, they are not "busted ", but they are out of date. Even assuming a 10 round maximum capacity.
-my 18.5"m1014 was longer than my 16.1 " suppressed ddm4 with surefire fullsize can in place.
-the 12ga offers two realistic choices for self defense. A slug that will penetrate a bit much...and multiple large pellets that have semi random flight paths. Neither is what I'd want to be responsible for legally or morally.
-pump guns are more prone to user error than any other platform I've used.
-typically, shotguns are difficult to control for rapid transitions given equal training of the individual.
-in areas where detachable magazines are allowed, only the Russian shotguns can come close to competing for user friendliness on a reload.
-shotguns are very ungainly to suppress, if that is legal in your area.
On the positive side:
Shotguns cause a lot of tissue disruption.
Shotguns are light and a good one allows very rapid first shot, due to good balance and being a firearm made for quickly engaging close and fast moving things, and evolved on those lines.
While the M4/AR is "more cooler", the pump shotgun has an enormous cost advantage for those people who are looking for a HD weapon on a budget. My personal preference is the 870. For many years, I bought every 870 Wingmaster or 870P I ran across that was in better than decent shape and cost less than $300. I finally had to stop as I had a safe full of shotguns, including two of the original Parkerized 870SP guns with the oiled walnut furniture. The 870 is very easy to service at home, with very few tools needed. About the only one I decided was a must is a forearm wrench. Parts are readily available, especially since whole shotguns cost less than a decent AR upper.
Ammo is available everywhere and was plentiful even during the aftermath of Sandy Hook. The 870 also does not look like an "evil, tacticool" weapon except for those people who festoon the poor gun with all kinds of AR-inspired "accessories", which may be a plus if ever used in a real situation where litigation is a certainty. The pump action also tends to reduce the tendency of people to launch more rounds than needed, as a separate and deliberate action is needed to fire another round.
As noted, there are some negatives. Recoil and stock fit are the two big ones, especially as perceived recoil is worsened by poor stock fit. Most 870 factory stocks are too long for most people. I personally like the Speedfeed IV-S stock as I have short arms. Learning to run the pump gun is another negative as many do not put in the time and rounds, and the 870 action release is in a strange area for newbies. Patterning the gun with your desired HD load is a must, one that most people skip. Rather than change choke tubes, I change shot hardness as the more expensive shells usually have more antimony and pattern tighter.
But if one puts in the time and shells, it is hard to beat the 870 for HD work.
I am REALLY looking forward to reading those.
Owner of Aridus Industries. Creator of the Q-DC, CROM, and other fun shotgun stuff.
My wife is from NY and I have been hunting there for 20 years. One thing that folks from Free America sometimes tend to overlook is the intangible aspect of what the gun looks like in the previously mentioned blue states. What I mean is this, if a homeowner uses a Remington 870 or a Marlin 336 to stop a bad guy in their house, even in NY, it is a familiar and common gun. It's not nearly so scary to a potential jury pool as a tacticool item.
I know this has been debated often, with valid points on both sides, but I personally believe it has merit in places where rails, red dots and lights make something a "Machine Gun" or "Assault Weapon" and pants wet with urine. It brings the Gary Fadden incident to mind.
Hokey religions and ancient lubricants are no match for a good Group IV PAO
Owner 360 Performance Shooting
I am an avid waterfowl hunter, and so I spend more time behind a shotgun then anything else. I have an AR, but it's a distant third behind how much I shoot my shotgun and pistol. So for me, a shotgun provides both power and familiarity, which makes it the logical choice.
I certainly don't think it's broken or outdated, just not as cool or sexy as a tricked out AR. It also isn't the answer for everyone. Recoil and fit are real considerations.
Last edited by Hawk87; 03-30-2016 at 07:45 AM.
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