Mini rant on current events

[alohadoug]

I need to worry about a dude with a knife at a Red Box; that's more in line with reality for me. It's just where I'm most likely to be; it's the condition I've been every time I've seen a car crash, when I almost got mugged at a gas station, stomping out a fire in someone's back yard driving by, a person having a seizure (in an empty parking lot), or flat tire on a sketchy road or side of a highway, etc. I never intended to be there; I just think back to everything "bad" that's happened to me and the best armament and most likely armament I could've had is a handgun. Therefore, that's where I probably need to spend my money that and a first responder class.

If we looked at real world incidents in the US and equipped accordingly we'd actually be carrying a primary revolver, a BUG snubby, a centerline carried fixed blade, OC and a handheld flashlight before we'd be carrying a semi auto pistol and/or WML. We'd also be taking a first aid, tac med and driving courses, and get a fucking gym membership, before we spent money on a WML, but that's not as much fun to talk about.

I'm the new guy around here. This site has made me realize just how out of "shape" I am. I shoot, not as regularly as I want but I try. My formal training is almost non-existent. I've gotten caught up in the "bubble-gum forum" mindset (credit to someone on here) about which double stack 9mm should I be carrying IWB in my 5.11 cargos. The problem is, I haven't worn 5.11 cargos since my OEF deployment (2003) and every IWB holster/pistol combo I try causes issues in my hip. I've never been into carbines/tactical rifles/etc. I'm looking for what do I need to protect myself and my family.

These three posts (OP plus these quotes) have had a greater impact on me than all the forum posts I've read in the last couple of years.

For that, I say thank you gentlemen.

Now to find the best training locally that I can afford.

Aloha

[RJ]

I'm the new guy around here. This site has made me realize just how out of "shape" I am. I shoot, not as regularly as I want but I try. My formal training is almost non-existent. I've gotten caught up in the "bubble-gum forum" mindset (credit to someone on here) about which double stack 9mm should I be carrying IWB in my 5.11 cargos. The problem is, I haven't worn 5.11 cargos since my OEF deployment (2003) and every IWB holster/pistol combo I try causes issues in my hip. I've never been into carbines/tactical rifles/etc. I'm looking for what do I need to protect myself and my family.

These three posts (OP plus these quotes) have had a greater impact on me than all the forum posts I've read in the last couple of years.

For that, I say thank you gentlemen.

Now to find the best training locally that I can afford.

Aloha

You and me both brother.

In the last 30 days, my mindset on what training I need has changed 180 degrees. Threads like this and posts like SLGs and Mr. Haggard's have reinforced what I learned at TacCon '16.

I'm just going to be quiet now and go back to re-reading the thread.

[scw2]

I hate med training but I've had to plug a few holes and apply tourniquets on lost limbs. I am VERY glad I attended tac med courses but I still hate med training. I realized the importance and I'm looking forward to John Murphy/FPF hosting more med training.

Was on the fence the past 2 days, but just this thread gave me the nudge I needed to sign up for the class on April 20th. I'd rather buy more gear/ammo or take shooting classes, but it's hard to argue with all the knowledge and recommendations provided by SMEs in this thread and others. I'm just glad this is the site I found by accident when I started shooting and the path it has led me down for training, mindset, etc.

[FOG]

Good stuff S, but a true rant would have mentioned the evils of carbohydrates

[Randy Harris]

If we looked at real world incidents in the US and equipped accordingly we'd actually be carrying a primary revolver, a BUG snubby, a centerline carried fixed blade, OC and a handheld flashlight before we'd be carrying a semi auto pistol and/or WML. We'd also be taking a first aid, tac med and driving courses, and get a fucking gym membership, before we spent money on a WML, but that's not as much fun to talk about.

While I prefer not to have to party like it is 1899 and roll with the revolvers (but I DO understand what you are saying), the rest is spot on. Unfortunately most people just do not have any idea how little they know and are easily distracted by shiny new things...like WMLs and mag wells comps and things like that....

I was involved in a "discussion" on Arfcom once where a Houston PD officer actually took me to task because I said that for the majority of people a weapon light is a non essential luxury item of questionable utility in the typical civilian street encounter. I said that since a handheld light has far more utility to it and everyone should be carrying a handheld on their person and that they could even palm it pre fight to use as a deterrant/distraction device (and you rarely can preemptively draw your pistol that the WML is affixed to) that a WML then becomes largely redundant ....especially in a civilian street confrontation.

You'd think I'd peed in his pet goldfish's aquarium. He goes on to tell me how he works at night and couldn't do his job without it, etc , etc....I told him that is the difference between HIM and MOST other people...he is contractually bound to clear unknown structures in search of unknown and possibly violent criminal actors...that is NOT something the majority of people do, or need to even be attempting. If I hear screaming coming from the old abandoned warehouse I am not compelled by duty to go check it out.... I make a phone call to 911 and his employer will send him or similarly dressed and equipped folks and they then go check it out.

He sent me a PM a few days later apologizing and saying he went back and without emotional attachment read what I had actually written and agreed that for the majority of folks a WML is largely redundant and unlikely to be used in the typical civilian street encounter. He agreed that he actually uses his hand held light 100 times more than the WML and that really the times he uses the WML would be almost non existent in most people's lives. I told him "no harm, no foul" and that I didn't take it personally and I was glad he came around. And that in HIS case...the WML made more sense. It is all about context.

Unfortunately a great many students have no grasp of context and want to look like the cool guys in the glossy pics in Recoil magazine and think that skill is acquired simply by buying stuff....but like I told Craig Douglas one time..."the reason we don't see more people in classes like this (referring to EWO) is because hard work is hard and hard work is what builds skills and expands your thinking..." Most people want to shoot their "safe queen" pistol or carbine and feel good about themselves instead of investing time in empty hand vs knife or medical training, or disarms, or reading body language and learning default covers and preemptive striking. That stuff is hard to talk to coworkers about at the water cooler. But a 3000 round class with a former Army Seal is easy to impress your co workers with...

I go to most classes dressed no differently than I am when out and about running errands. Untucked polo shirt or T shirt, IWB holster ( I even shot the Rogers Shooting School class from concealed IWB),spare mag, center line carried fixed blade, pocket folder, TQ and IBD, small Fox Pepper Spray, handheld light, and backup gun - all of it concealed. I'm pretty much the most "untactical" looking guy. But I'm not going to classes looking to impress my coworkers...I'm going to class to improve my skills and pick up new things I can pass on to my students to help them improve their skills.

[Chuck Haggard]

Classic! I'm sure you also meant to add some type of H2H or Shivworks class

I hate med training but I've had to plug a few holes and apply tourniquets on lost limbs. I am VERY glad I attended tac med courses but I still hate med training. I realized the importance and I'm looking forward to John Murphy/FPF hosting more med training.

Word.

To quote that great philosopher Southnarc, "If you can't keep the average dude from raping you in the gym shower, the last fucking thing you need is a carbine class", or words to that effect. So, yeah.

I've also noted in my life that having some empty hand skills have often kept things from turning into a shooting. Lots of cops getting jammed up nowadays in shootings, it was about that bad ref UOF in the Rodney King days. However, comma, this one day, at band camp, when I took a dude's pistol from away him as he was trying to draw on me, and I beat him unconscious with his own gun when he tried to take it back, no one said a word about it.


I was glad at 18 years of age I had been to basic at 17, and learned Army first aid on top of regular Red Cross type first aid, when I was on the interstate and drove up on a multi car roll-over, with one victim having an arterial bleed from her leg and another having a gushing head wound. Knowing something about pressure dressings and TQs made a huge difference to those people on that day.

[Mitch]

I've also noted in my life that having some empty hand skills have often kept things from turning into a shooting. Lots of cops getting jammed up nowadays in shootings, it was about that bad ref UOF in the Rodney King days. However, comma, this one day, at band camp, when I took a dude's pistol from away him as he was trying to draw on me, and I beat him unconscious with his own gun when he tried to take it back, no one said a word about it.

That is AWESOME!

[psalms144.1]

Pistol mounted lights are one of the nichiest of niche bits o' kit.

If we looked at real world incidents in the US and equipped accordingly we'd actually be carrying a primary revolver, a BUG snubby, a centerline carried fixed blade, OC and a handheld flashlight before we'd be carrying a semi auto pistol and/or WML. We'd also be taking a first aid, tac med and driving courses, and get a fucking gym membership, before we spent money on a WML, but that's not as much fun to talk about.

SLG - first, if that's a rant for you, I'd hate to see you mellow. It would be like the Ambien of the Internet Kidding aside, extremely well written, and I vote should be a STICKY.

Chuck - couldn't agree more, especially the gym part - as a chronically overweight, desk-riding fraud investigator who's WAY more likely to keel over from a heart attack brought on by diabetes, high BP and cholesterol than to have an issue where I'm assassinated by a squad of Nazi frogmen rappelling into my office.

Having said that, even "switched on" organizations don't get a lot of what you're saying - to whit, when I was running a protection detail for a 4-star, we traveled all over the world in a variety of active combat zones. The command was all about sending us off to "name" schools to learn how to j-turn and drive 90mph backwards, or to fight in the dark and shoot like maniacs. They funded the construction of a simunitions shoot house on the base, and we ran all kinds of awesome house clearing drills there every couple of weeks. When I asked to send my guys to advanced trauma treatment training, however, they shut me down COLD. Not even open to debate - wasn't happening. Academi/Xe/BW, Mid-South, Dieters - you betcha! Shoot-a-pig/save-a-pig class - no f'in way.

Oh, and the part about round guns - CRAZY talk.

[HCM]

Good stuff S, but a true rant would have mentioned the evils of carbohydrates

Definition of dilemma : when you are a Crossfitting Fire Fighter on a Paleo diet and can't decide which one to tell people about first

[Robinson]

Really good thread.

Some of the concepts expressed include the reasons I keep hitting the cardio, weights, and the dojo as much as I can even though it makes my tinnitus spike like crazy (and that sucks believe me). All the firearms related classes I've attended have been focused on defensive skills since I'm not sure what practical value a tactical class would have for me.

That said, I do plan to take a locally offered carbine class at some not-too-distant point since I recently acquired one -- and I've been trying to learn as much about it as I can. Still prefer the ergos of a levergun, I do.