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Thread: Mini rant on current events

  1. #1

    Mini rant on current events

    Another thread has prompted me to write this, as well as some PM's from a few of you. Be warned, this is a rant, therefore it will not be very cogent. Expect to jump around.

    Years ago, people went to "tactical" or "fighting" type classes to learn what guns and gear to use (to an extent) as well as how to use them in the environment they needed them for. Classes tried to replicate reality. This is very hard to do on a square range, and today we know more about it, no question. However the better schools did try, and often succeeded pretty well, within the understood limitations.

    Today, people take classes, not as preparation for "the test", but as the test itself. They buy their gear to excel in a class environment. They train with and for the people that make them feel good. Often that looks like giant pieces of steel, at very close ranges. Other times it is giant pieces of paper, at very close ranges. Taping targets to, you know, learn from them, is usually not a part of the process. "No paying student left behind, especially when we can sucker 20-30 of them into a single class."

    Please note, there are still exceptions to the above, and reputable trainers still exist. The above is simply the direction the industry has taken, not a condemnation of all trainers by any means.

    When the class becomes the goal, things like brakes and comps become paramount. Afterall, how will you shoot a sub 2 sec 1-5 drill otherwise? Mag well on your carry pistol? Of course. (just don't tell anyone you don't actually carry it). Latest cool guy OWB holster? Check. What do you mean you can't actually conceal it? Oh, only in the winter, got it.

    The bigger issue is the shooting level, not the gear. We have more better shooters out there today than at any time in history. Maybe. The rest though, can barely hit an USPSA target at speed, let alone the A zone. They get used to shooting their comped rifles at close pistol distances, at speeds their ability can't sustain. Failure should be expected.

    Some people, who can legitimately shoot, and are in positions to need a gun professionally, still look for hardware solutions. Nothing wrong with that, it is how we advance the firearms industry. The Marine Corps was dead set against optics on rifles...until they realized that their ability to hit the bad guy went up tremendously if they put a ZERO'd optic on the gun. I bolded zero for a reason, and I'm sure you can figure out why.

    I am not in anyway against technology or advancement, but for every great idea that actually advances our abilities, there are many false paths that detract from the goal. Some people's personalities require them to constantly tinker with stuff. Some just want simple stuff that works all the time. Some record everything so that they know what works and what doesn't. Others forget every bobble their pistol has had and call it reliable. Takes all types. Even within a given unit, there is much dissension about these things. Always has been, always will be. The fact that a small handful of guys are using a particular pistol, should not be misconstrued to make people think that everyone working for the same organization is also using it. Because they are not, and there is much dissension among the ranks.

    Also, the whole Mil/LE/Self Defense wheelhouse stuff. Mostly, the Mil has the best professional shooters on the planet. A small % of the Military for sure, but still mostly better than the other organizations out there. There are some notable exceptions in the LE world, but they really are the exception. None of these top professional gunmen can really compare to a USPSA national champion in speed/accuracy. None can compare to a Bullseye champion in accuracy. Certainly none compare to a Western Quick Draw competitor for speed. They have different requirements and different interests. Except, there is more and more bleed over from one area to the other. Nothing wrong with that, except when hard charging guys look to hardware solutions to make them shoot more like the Champions. That really doesn't work. Shooting a duty pistol at a national level takes a lot of work, and is often simply not competitive. Nonetheless, the benefits are tremendous. Which is why only a few people manage to do it. There are just too many other things to draw people's attention, time and money, so real duty guns, shot at a really high level, will always be the providence of the few. If it was easy, everyone would do it.

    Back to the wheelhouse. Our current Military has more recent, relevant fighting experience than ever before in our lifetimes. But they really don't fight with pistols. The number of actual pistol shootings among the top Mil guys today is exceptionally small. They train a lot on them. They shoot them well by professional standards, but they don't really use them in fights very often. In fact, the number of actual pistol shootings would probably surprise you, but I haven't betrayed anyone's confidences so far and I'm not about to start now.

    So, if you are going to learn to shoot a pistol, go to a guy who knows how to shoot and teach pistol shooting. Mil, LE, competition, all have good instructors. All have instructors that suck too. My point is DEFINITELY NOT that Mil guys don't know how to use a pistol. Just that its use is actually pretty far down the list, and that there are many different issues (software, mostly) when it comes to defending yourself on the street, vs most Mil missions that the pistol can be used for. You, in Detroit, needing to defend yourself, will not be pulling your pistol proactively. It will not be in an open retention rig. You will have no teammates. You will be trying to avoid a fight, not looking for one. No one will show you a picture of your attacker earlier in the evening, you will have to figure that out for yourself.

    If you want to learn to fight with a pistol, go to the guys who not only actually fight with pistols, but who spend most of their professional lives training to fight with pistols. The best will give you their collective experience, and not just one man's opinion. Blowing doors open is awesome, and I do enjoy it, but it doesn't make one a better pistol instructor, unless you also need to do the door thing. Most don't.

    Also, the support level of our top Mil units cannot be believed until you experience it. No LE have quite the same level of support. None. Guns that cannot work for a nationwide LE agency might be acceptable under different circumstances and with different levels of support and "gear tweaking" tolerance. A fighting pistol is a fighting pistol, but some units have missions that although extremely rare or practically non existent, might warrant a special kind of pistol. Maybe. That doesn't mean the gun is "better" than what you have, and it likely won't work as well for your mission.

    Anyway, these are just random rantings from a guy who never was in the military, but who has worked very closely with them, both as a student and instructor, and operationally. Still, an outsider.

    None of the above should be construed to be negative towards any Mil or LE units or people. It is strictly a rant about taking what those guys do, out of context. I have been very fortunate to have learned a lot of hard won lessons the easy way, and had great mentors, from the Mil/LE and private sector. I hold all who serve in the highest regard, and do not consider LE service to be on the same level as Mil service.
    Last edited by SLG; 03-29-2016 at 01:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Read your post, makes sense, but couldn't find the rant, though.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Read your post, makes sense, but couldn't find the rant, though.
    The rant isn't showing up for me either, just a solid post full of reality and truth.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Great post. I have been to 3 classes in the past year with a group owned by some mil guys. 2 of the 3 were actually run by local LE guys that they use as instructors. I first I thought "I'm not getting 'the guy'", but quickly found the LEO's teaching the class brought a lot of street knowledge and experience that I believe was of great benefit. I hadn't put the thought organization into it that you have, but I totally agree.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    "No paying student left behind, especially when we can sucker 20-30 of them into a single class."
    Oh, boy. Truth personified.

    A friend and I were discussing this very thing at lunch today. He's a training junkie, and has been responsible for a lot of quality trainers coming here over the past few years. He asked me what I thought about getting some particular "big name" guys to come. I pointed him to several posts here, regarding cell phone distractions, TV crews, 1 to 25 instructor/student ratios, etc., and said, "You might want to re-think that."


  6. #6
    I agree that we seem to have lost sight of important things, but our way of life is changing.

    Our political leaders have created more gun owners than ever before, and while places like have raised the performance bar, too many people still don’t understand the basics, like zero. The internet spreads information, and more (although still not enough) people want to learn. As a result, the training industry starting to become a part of the hobby and entertainment industries.

    That’s not a bad thing—it makes the shooting sports stronger and helps hold the line against anti-2A legislation. But it does mean that a lot of new folks have unrealistic goals, and they buy unrealistic gear to try to meet them because that’s just human nature. In the end, we need to bring ALL of these folks up to speed. The more switched-on among us will have to grit our teeth and endure the floundering of the new guys, but we need to be in it for the long haul.

    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  7. #7

    No use of the word "fuck" and not enough calling people out by name.

    Would read rants again.
    Chief Developer for V Development Group
    Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post

    No use of the word "fuck" and not enough calling people out by name.

    Would read rants again.
    Yeah. And I read it pretty quickly, but I didn't see anyone get warned???

  9. #9
    Member ubervic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Northern VA
    Excellent post. I disagree with only one of your assertions; I feel that the post is quite cogent indeed.

    This post speaks to me, as I am a Regular Guy who happens to believe that I am responsible for managing my personal safety against violent threats. I would absolutely love to be able to make a LEO appear and defend me against....whatever. But I know that this wish is not supported by reality.

    So what does a regular guy do to raise his skills & capabilities level? Does he seek out the Former Operator instructor? I've always thought that this didn't make sense for me-----I'm not an Operator, I do not wish to become an Operator, and the skills and techniques that an Operator knows and runs in his Operational environment probably do not fit my Regular Guy gear/clothing/lifestyle needs and preferences. Not poking fun at Operators; to the contrary, I respect and admire their training and commitment. Point is, I do not want to kick-down doors and neutralize pre-identified targets. I just hope to be able to proactively perceive and manage threat scenarios that happen upon my Regular Guy experience. Thank goodness for trainers like John Murphy at FPF Training, as I believe his no-BS training & instruction fits my real world needs.

  10. #10
    I don't see the rant. But it's still a damn good post all the same.

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