5.56 Suppressed Questions

[Unobtanium]

I recently bought a rifle suppressor because I already have hearing problems and I think I will be less likely to make the problems worse with the suppressor when shooting at the range. And in the unlikely event I ever need to fire the rifle without hearing protection, even though with the suppressor it's still not 'hearing safe' it will hopefully be a little less damaging. Words like 'tactical' or 'stealthy' didn't factor into my purchasing decision in the least.

I remember a friend of mine in the industry not being such a fan of my love for suppressors, until they killed a perp without one. They then said "I wish I had had a suppressor. My hearing is fucked right now." Luckily, most acoustic injury can be successfully treated with aggressive tapered steroids PO. Loss will still result in the 6kHz range, though, which will shift down into the 3-4kHz range as you age.

[Robinson]

Luckily, most acoustic injury can be successfully treated with aggressive tapered steroids PO.

I wish that had been available or I had known about it back when most of my damage occurred!

[Unobtanium]

I wish that had been available or I had known about it back when most of my damage occurred!

Prednisone isn't new. It usually takes an audiologist to write for it for this use though. Most GP's don't treat acoustic injury very effectively. In more aggressive cases, within 24 hours of injury, nitroglycerine IV is used to improve circulation to the follicles in the inner ear. Ischemia secondary to vasoconstriction causes a good bit of the permanent damage. The ntg helps with that. Acute acoustic trauma can most certainly be effectively treated. There is just a lot of ignorance and old-school thinking surrounding it.

[BWT]

At home: 10.5", 11.5" and just added 18" to the mix. All semi-auto only.

Formerly, at work: 7.5", 10.3", 11.5", 12.5", 14.5", some limited full auto (maybe 4-5k rounds?), and a lot of semi-auto.

Very limited experience with 16" suppressed. Usually friends' guns. Probably less than 300 rounds total.

I have only shot 16" and 20" suppressed at work (former job) in semi-auto, and 24" bolt gun that was mine, but suppressor belonged to a coworker.

I have shot 20" and 24" bolt guns that were suppressed that belonged to other friends.

I have shot a small amount (about 3k rounds) of full auto 7.62x39 suppressed.

I have since sold anything .308, and almost exclusively shoot 5.56 these days.

I have probably shot about 7-10k rounds through about 20 different types of 5.56 suppressors that I don't own, and about 10k rounds through 1 5.56 suppressor that I own and only about 500 rounds through another 5.56 suppressor that I do own. I have probably put about 2k 5.56 rounds through about 3-4 different 7.62 cans that I don't own.

I have put about 3k 7.62x39 rounds through a .30 cal can/gun that I don't own (almost all on full auto). I have probably shot about 5-6k .308 suppressed in total, which I have rarely found to be fun with the singular exception of some of the bolt guns with other people's subsonic hand loads, which were more effective than I would have ever imagined.

In total, I have shot a fairly limited amount of time suppressed, with the exception of 9mm and .22lr/.22 short. In 2012, I shot about 200 rounds of .22lr almost every on my lunch break, 4 days a week, shot into a bullet trap the other 3 days of the week after paramedic school/clinicals/ride alongs. I shot over 50k of .22lr suppressed that year alone.

I don't live a life like that anymore. I shot just about every major suppressor on the market in 2012-2013, but that is not true today. I own about 10-ish suppressors.

ETA: I shot almost every day from 2010 until 2014 when I got engaged, and went down to about once a week. I went down to about once every other week in 2015 when I got married (switched career paths in 2013-2014 and couldn't afford as much ammo, and I wasn't getting free ammo or subsidized ammo any longer). Since last December, I haven't shot at all. I got diagnosed with a rare, terminal heart condition. But, I'm making the most of life and getting stronger every day, adjusting to the new meds and new lifestyle and effects of multiple surgeries. I got cleared to shoot again a few weeks ago, but haven't had the strength/energy yet, but started dry firing again. So, for full disclosure, I'm not exactly a "shooter" at all, at the moment, but I will be again soon assuming my body improves.

First off, I'm praying for your recovery; that's rough and I think you have your priorities right.

I asked about barrel length because your observance of basically (my words) "caked with carbon" and wall thickening in suppressors; I figured if guys are using suppressors they're probably using other NFA items (such as SBR's or even in your case MG's). Just referencing the picture of my wife with the 12.5'' SBR. I believe that the experience you have with predominantly SBR's (and MG's at that) in 5.56mm and longer barrels in .308 (I had a feeling you didn't shoot SBR 7.62; it's just not enjoyable) may have shaped your perspective on using non-dedicated suppressors. I think that the SBR and Short barrel MG's given how much unburnt powder (or still burning looking at the muzzle flash) may leave larger carbon, etc. deposits earlier on in the baffle stack of a suppressor than on a longer barrel (or potentially non FA).

In short, I think the full auto and short barrel may have caused the caking issue (my words) to be exacerbated (I believe either would but combined; I certainly think it may have).

I don't know that the OP would have a similar experience taking a .30 cal can across multiple platforms. But I'll also say this; your first hand experience with suppressors far far outweighs my own. Sure, I've spent a lot of time looking at them over the years and NFA items have been where my interests are primarily; I'll defer to your experience over mine.

One thing I'll add, unfortunately one other truth is... silencers are pretty much a disposable item; it's unfortunate but I truly think they are and especially so in silencers that can't be disassembled and cleaned (pretty much all heavy use rifle silencers). KAC indicates that they have rifle silencers still in service with over 50k rounds through them (Trey Knight at 13:00 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE939qTSt8o). I would look for a high quality metal (inconel or now stellite at least for the first baffles; as I understand it Ti can take the abrasion but not the heat given to the blast baffles), fully welded core, and ideally a serialized portion that is replaceable in a rifle suppressor.

There's a company Stalking Rhino Inc. (http://www.stalkingrhino.com/) may help you re-core, re-build, or improve some of your old silencers for no longer in business companies or discontinued silencers(http://www.stalkingrhino.com/jailbreaking). It seems that the NFA market has created a unique niche for that small company and I've heard good things (I'm not affiliated in any way). They don't have re-builds pictured but I've heard good things about their results.

I see a purpose for silencers but where I am in life; the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

To the OP, I think you made a solid choice with the Rugged Surge, and you can change the length of the suppressor. I'm impressed with it.

God Bless,

Brandon

[Unobtanium]

First off, I'm praying for your recovery; that's rough and I think you have your priorities right.

I asked about barrel length because your observance of basically (my words) "caked with carbon" and wall thickening in suppressors; I figured if guys are using suppressors they're probably using other NFA items (such as SBR's or even in your case MG's). Just referencing the picture of my wife with the 12.5'' SBR. I believe that the experience you have with predominantly SBR's (and MG's at that) in 5.56mm and longer barrels in .308 (I had a feeling you didn't shoot SBR 7.62; it's just not enjoyable) may have shaped your perspective on using non-dedicated suppressors. I think that the SBR and Short barrel MG's given how much unburnt powder (or still burning looking at the muzzle flash) may leave larger carbon, etc. deposits earlier on in the baffle stack of a suppressor than on a longer barrel (or potentially non FA).

In short, I think the full auto and short barrel may have caused the caking issue (my words) to be exacerbated (I believe either would but combined; I certainly think it may have).

I don't know that the OP would have a similar experience taking a .30 cal can across multiple platforms. But I'll also say this; your first hand experience with suppressors far far outweighs my own. Sure, I've spent a lot of time looking at them over the years and NFA items have been where my interests are primarily; I'll defer to your experience over mine.

One thing I'll add, unfortunately one other truth is... silencers are pretty much a disposable item; it's unfortunate but I truly think they are and especially so in silencers that can't be disassembled and cleaned (pretty much all heavy use rifle silencers). KAC indicates that they have rifle silencers still in service with over 50k rounds through them (Trey Knight at 13:00 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE939qTSt8o). I would look for a high quality metal (inconel or now stellite at least for the first baffles; as I understand it Ti can take the abrasion but not the heat given to the blast baffles), fully welded core, and ideally a serialized portion that is replaceable in a rifle suppressor.

There's a company Stalking Rhino Inc. (http://www.stalkingrhino.com/) may help you re-core, re-build, or improve some of your old silencers for no longer in business companies or discontinued silencers(http://www.stalkingrhino.com/jailbreaking). It seems that the NFA market has created a unique niche for that small company and I've heard good things (I'm not affiliated in any way). They don't have re-builds pictured but I've heard good things about their results.

I see a purpose for silencers but where I am in life; the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

To the OP, I think you made a solid choice with the Rugged Surge, and you can change the length of the suppressor. I'm impressed with it.

God Bless,

Brandon

Surefire will re-core the suppressor for around $650 last I checked. I had one of mine re-cored, and you literally cannot tell. I could tell you it's brand new and never been used, and you couldn't prove me wrong unless you knew.

[cricket]

Prednisone isn't new. It usually takes an audiologist to write for it for this use though. Most GP's don't treat acoustic injury very effectively. In more aggressive cases, within 24 hours of injury, nitroglycerine IV is used to improve circulation to the follicles in the inner ear. Ischemia secondary to vasoconstriction causes a good bit of the permanent damage. The ntg helps with that. Acute acoustic trauma can most certainly be effectively treated. There is just a lot of ignorance and old-school thinking surrounding it.

This is great information, as was the discussion contributed in another thread re: hearing damage mitigation.

I don't want to derail this thread (let me know if I should start a separate one). However, further to the above, I do have some naive questions: where can we find state of the art information on hearing protection for shooting? What is the best practice for layering in-ear/over-ear + "dumb" vs. electronic protection? How how can we identify hearing professionals who can provide advice applicable to shooters?

I have visited a handful of ENTs/audiologists over the years. All were nice people, and happy to sell me fitted plugs, but didn't seem to have a lot of useful or in depth advice of the type Unobtanium is relaying in this thread.

[Robinson]

Prednisone isn't new. It usually takes an audiologist to write for it for this use though. Most GP's don't treat acoustic injury very effectively. In more aggressive cases, within 24 hours of injury, nitroglycerine IV is used to improve circulation to the follicles in the inner ear. Ischemia secondary to vasoconstriction causes a good bit of the permanent damage. The ntg helps with that. Acute acoustic trauma can most certainly be effectively treated. There is just a lot of ignorance and old-school thinking surrounding it.

Just saw this -- thanks for posting the info. I guess it's worth a discussion with an audiologist to find out if they offer emergency services like the above. I imagine getting the treatment ASAP is key to success.

Related topic and further derail: I've seen NAC often suggested as a means to prevent further hearing damage. Do you have any knowledge of it or its effectiveness?

[Robinson]

This is great information, as was the discussion contributed in another thread re: hearing damage mitigation.

I don't want to derail this thread (let me know if I should start a separate one). However, further to the above, I do have some naive questions: where can we find state of the art information on hearing protection for shooting? What is the best practice for layering in-ear/over-ear + "dumb" vs. electronic protection? How how can we identify hearing professionals who can provide advice applicable to shooters?

I have visited a handful of ENTs/audiologists over the years. All were nice people, and happy to sell me fitted plugs, but didn't seem to have a lot of useful or in depth advice of the type Unobtanium is relaying in this thread.

This is a case where prevention and treatment are totally different things. I already have hearing damage so I have to be really careful, especially when shooting. I use both plugs and muffs when shooting indoors and the gun shots don't generally bother my ears (sometimes an AR in the next lane is still a problem). I do notice my tinnitus is spiked after shooting, but I think it is a result of having the plugs stuffed in my ears rather than the noise of the gunshots. I hope to have my suppressor out of NFA jail soon as well.