AAR: Larry Vickers Advanced Handgun Marksmanship Class, 21 MAR Bellevue, WA

[okie john]

First, thanks for the review. I always like to read about classes I am considering.

Second, I have been to three Alias classes and all were overbooked. Not sure what to make of your price comment as they are already the most expensive of the around 50 classes I have taken.

Glad to be helpful.

I mentioned price because I'm continually astonished that it's possible to get instruction from people like LAV, Mac, Nyeti, Wayne Dobbs, Ken Hackathorn, etc., at all, much less for the price of a case or two of 9mm ball ammo. I've seen major increases in my ability as a result of getting good training, so for me, it's not the cost but the value. The equation may be different for other folks.


Okie John

[Edwin]

I always miss the announcements when people are in town but I'm not so dad this time since I'm at a Langdon class.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[LittleLebowski]

Well, already three people in this thread have experienced it first hand in three separate classes.

I know other people who have had Alias classes where there were only 10 people, and I know a few who have reported those large "accidental scheduling mistake 25 person" classes billed as 12 person classes being their experience as well.

Like I said, they're either a very, very terrible scheduling company...if this were the case the instructors would drop them like flies.

Or, this is common place for classes where more people want to sign up than there are spots open, and the instructors mildly disapprove, but go along with it because they're getting paid well.

The instructors work with Alias because Alias does the marketing and brings in the students, the instructor overlook the overbooking because they don't have to get on the forums and market their classes themselves. The overbooking of students is not a new thing with Alias and it's clearly ongoing.

It sounds like a great class (I personally very much enjoyed a Vickers Adv Handgun class a few years ago and got a lot out of it) but as others have said, the overbooking is not an anomaly.

[LittleLebowski]

I just sent Alias a link to this thread. Maybe if enough people let them know about a problem, they'll fix it.

I'd rather see Alias address it than say someone like myself receive phone calls about something I had fuck all to do with. Leave me the fuck alone, Alias.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Okay, now I feel,ripped off. We did the whole Humbler at 25 yards scored on the rings.....I am still damaged. I think everyone should be damaged. I shot as good as I ever have having practiced a ton before the class and having had about a day and a half with Larry before shooting it.....and it was still horribly difficult.

Years ago (2006ish), Larry told me that if I was starting on the 700 Point Aggregate (the official name for the course) with a Glock, to begin at 15 yards. He characterized that as playing in the NCAA. After success was gained at that distance, go to the 25 yard line and start over, said distance being "the NFL" in his words. If you can shoot a 650/700 at either distance, you are very solid on your fundamentals.

[HopetonBrown]

It'd seem pretty simple for Alias to list maximum class size and stick to it. I think 18 would be a good number. Figuring that one of the 18 is the POC and got a free slot, and the average Alias class tuition is $525, that'd still leave over $7k for the instructor and Alias with nearly $1800.

My last Alias class had 24 students. My last non-Alias class with a former Alias instructor had 16 students. My next class, with a national champion GM, is capped at 8 students and is $400.

My Vickers class was not run through Alias and had 15 students.

[Aray]

I'd rather see Alias address it than say someone like myself receive phone calls about something I had fuck all to do with. Leave me the fuck alone, Alias.

I hope you don't get warned.

[steveptr]

I was in the 2 day class before yours. I thought it was a great class lots of new to me drills learned. its interesting that our 2 day class had less students for a Saturday Sunday class then the 1 day advanced pistol.

[Andy T]

The overbooking is most likely done on purpose by Alias. If you read AAR - Pat McNamara 3 day TAPS, Sig Academy, Epping, NH; 8 July – 10 July on lightfighter (registration may be required). There were 32 students to 1 instructor.
Scheduling "mix up" was cited.
Also if you follow AAR's for other "high profile" Alias instructors like Pannone, you will see at least 20 students / instructor in most cases.

[Wayne Dobbs]

So I may "get warned" because I point out that the Alias "Emperor" has no clothes, but it wouldn't be the first time I spoke the truth about something, nor shall it be the last. The truth here is that Alias is somewhat like La Cosa Nostra (LCN) and the way they've controlled entire industries in an area like NYC, Philly, etc. They get control of all the concrete or garbage hauling (two of their bread and butter operations to seize) and dictate price, conditions and performance favorable to them and not you! Alias has successfully gathered the preferred trainers under their banner and made life pretty simple for the trainers, who previously had to deal with booking, course hosts, logistics, etc., and have eliminated those considerations. That's good for those guys, but the tradeoff is that the consumers of the training delivered by the big names are now having to take whatever Alias delivers in terms of student numbers, which are usually too big for a true quality experience with those trainers. They may also be bordering on unsafe under some conditions due to those numbers. You are now faced with multiple shooter lines, lower instructor attention to students and an overall lower quality of training experience.

But....just like the mob's concrete or cartage "services", you take what you can get to get the service of one of those big name trainers. It's a shit sandwich at times, so you get to at least enjoy the bread and endure the turd.