LL's "Almost Guaranteed to Work fixes for Gen4 Glock 9mm issues"

[lazarus long]

The BTF demon in my G19 has been exorcised!! My pistol is a G19 Gen4 MOS. I was experiencing at least 2-3 BTF's per 15 round magazine with all weights and velocities of factory and reloaded ammunition. BTW, the Apex and HRED were not the solution, so I kept trying.

First, my thanks to all the contributors to this topic who educated me. Second, my thanks to Apex Tactical Specialties for their instruction on extractor fitting.
https://www.apextactical.com/blog/in...g-fre-fitting/. The usual YMMV caveat applies, but here is what worked for me.

The main take-away from from what I learned is that the empty shell casing must be held tightly against the breech face before the ejector kicks out the shell. The Apex instructions make it clear in the description of figure 4 that downward pressure on the shell must be 3.5-4 lbs to push the shell down out of the extractor. In my instance, the pressure needed was only about 1 lb or less. I expect that tolerance stacking was the culprit. From my spare parts bin, I found an old Gen 3 non-LCI extractor, and combined that with a stock plunger and a white spring loaded bearing. The pressure required to push the shell down jumped from < 1 lb to about 4 lbs. After those changes were made the BTF went away. I have put 200 rounds down range with a variety of factory hollow points and my own 124 gr. reloads with no BTF problems. The ejection pattern is about 4:00 at a distance of 3-6 feet, depending on how hot the rounds are.

I wish you luck.

[Crawls]

I have an early Gen4 Glock 17 with all its original parts that had been happily running along until it hit about 5,000 rounds or so (I don't track it that closely anymore.) The gun has always had ejection problems with week ammo like UMC and WWB, but ran like a champ on Winchester Nato (Q4318) and even ran fine on 115 gr Tula steel case. So my solution to the weak ejection was to stick to hotter ammo.

At my last range trip, this gun started to have extraction problems - two or three rounds out of 200 failed to extract from the chamber. So I decided to order up the full list of parts from the OP and see if it would fix the extraction and ejection problems. This was my first time tearing into a Glock beyond just a basic cleaning, but I got it all back together and need to hit the range to make sure everything works.

Here are some observations that might help others going through this for the first time:
1. If using the H.E.R.D., there is no need to use/order the non LCI bearing that you'd order if you were just using the Apex F.R.E. The bearing is the little plastic nub at the end of the "extractor depressor plunger assembly" and it is an integral part of the H.E.R.D.. So, save the $1.97 and don't order it.
2. The spring that comes with the Apex FRE is not needed if you install a HERD at the same time. After years of spinning wrenches on vehicles, I stressed about having extra parts at the end of this project, but it's OK this time.

Thanks.

[Nephrology]

I have an early Gen4 Glock 17 with all its original parts that had been happily running along until it hit about 5,000 rounds or so (I don't track it that closely anymore.) The gun has always had ejection problems with week ammo like UMC and WWB, but ran like a champ on Winchester Nato (Q4318) and even ran fine on 115 gr Tula steel case. So my solution to the weak ejection was to stick to hotter ammo.

At my last range trip, this gun started to have extraction problems - two or three rounds out of 200 failed to extract from the chamber. So I decided to order up the full list of parts from the OP and see if it would fix the extraction and ejection problems. This was my first time tearing into a Glock beyond just a basic cleaning, but I got it all back together and need to hit the range to make sure everything works.

Here are some observations that might help others going through this for the first time:
1. If using the H.E.R.D., there is no need to use/order the non LCI bearing that you'd order if you were just using the Apex F.R.E. The bearing is the little plastic nub at the end of the "extractor depressor plunger assembly" and it is an integral part of the H.E.R.D.. So, save the $1.97 and don't order it.
2. The spring that comes with the Apex FRE is not needed if you install a HERD at the same time. After years of spinning wrenches on vehicles, I stressed about having extra parts at the end of this project, but it's OK this time.

Thanks.

Your recoil spring is also at the end of its service life, FYI...

[JCS]

Your recoil spring is also at the end of its service life, FYI...

5,000 rounds is the life of a recoil spring?


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[CS Tactical]

5,000 rounds is the life of a recoil spring?


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IIRC Glock recommends replacement at 3,000 for the single RSA and 5,000 for the dual RSA.

[Crawls]

Your recoil spring is also at the end of its service life, FYI...

Yep. I replaced that too. It's one of the parts listed in LL's OP.

[echo5charlie]

IIRC Glock recommends replacement at 3,000 for the single RSA and 5,000 for the dual RSA.

When I went through my first Glock armorers course in 2002, we were told that the RSA for the non-sub compacts (now referred to as the single RSA) was 5000 rounds and the sub compacts was 20,000 rounds. My long overdue recert course in 2011 covered the then-new Gen4 and we were told that the single RSA was good to 5000 rounds and the dual RSA for the Gen4 was good to (get ready for this) 20,000 rounds with (then) current testing indicating 40,000 rounds was possible. I recently recerted last month and we were told that 3000/5000 was the life cycle.

I'd love to know what the hell happened! I would have asked the instructor, but he was SUPER green.


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[TexasLarryE]

Do Gen4 23's have the same issues? I've been through 3 Gen4 19s trying to find a reliable one and have pretty much given up, but Glocks are just so easy to shoot well. I competed with a 35 back in the day that went a little over 45k before any part breakage, but I have zero experience with gen4 .40's.

I have read this entire posting and have registered on P-F this evening BECAUSE my reliable G23 gen 4 assaulted me twice in the face today at the range, ending a run of about 3,000 rounds of almost perfection. If I didn't have my range glasses on, I would probably have had to go to an ER because it came back hard. I was using my normal mix of 165-grain rfnp Freedom Munitions and 180-grain Remingtons (bulk pack) all preloaded into a pile of glock oem 13-rd mags which are about 3-1/2 years old, used once a week (40-50 times/year). I'm assuming that the Apex extractor and White Sound HRED will work in my G23; someone please correct me if I'm wrong--I will also ask Apex before buying. My wife's G19 (also gen 4) has only about 500 rounds through it, and it stovepiped several times on her the last time she went to the range (I gave her the limpwrist talk but she says she didn't). I know I didn't, because my pistol career started with several .357 magnums many years ago, and I grab with both hands using counterposing force grip to minimize wobble. My alltime favorite semiauto is a Ruger P944, but it's bigger and heavier than the glock and holds fewer rounds, so its a safe queen and the G23 is my EDC. I don't like having to replace parts on such new guns, and I wonder if the S&W M&P's have the same issues? I'm open to suggestions please. Edit to my post: I just checked my math; at 91 rounds/wk x 40 x 3.5 = over 12,000 rounds through my G23 (!). How time flies! I guess I should consider replacing the RSA already, and maybe all the springs? It's my EDC.

[LittleLebowski]

I have read this entire posting and have registered on P-F this evening BECAUSE my reliable G23 gen 4 assaulted me twice in the face today at the range, ending a run of about 3,000 rounds of almost perfection. If I didn't have my range glasses on, I would probably have had to go to an ER because it came back hard. I was using my normal mix of 165-grain rfnp Freedom Munitions and 180-grain Remingtons (bulk pack) all preloaded into a pile of glock oem 13-rd mags which are about 3-1/2 years old, used once a week (40-50 times/year). I'm assuming that the Apex extractor and White Sound HRED will work in my G23; someone please correct me if I'm wrong--I will also ask Apex before buying. My wife's G19 (also gen 4) has only about 500 rounds through it, and it stovepiped several times on her the last time she went to the range (I gave her the limpwrist talk but she says she didn't). I know I didn't, because my pistol career started with several .357 magnums many years ago, and I grab with both hands using counterposing force grip to minimize wobble. My alltime favorite semiauto is a Ruger P944, but it's bigger and heavier than the glock and holds fewer rounds, so its a safe queen and the G23 is my EDC. I don't like having to replace parts on such new guns, and I wonder if the S&W M&P's have the same issues? I'm open to suggestions please. Edit to my post: I just checked my math; at 91 rounds/wk x 40 x 3.5 = over 12,000 rounds through my G23 (!). How time flies! I guess I should consider replacing the RSA already, and maybe all the springs? It's my EDC.

I'd slap the HRED in right away and check and see if there's a new iteration of the RSA for your pistols. Also, check and make both are on the newer ejector. These are cheap parts and no brainers.

[TexasLarryE]

Thanks, LL--I'll do that! I've been thinking about my wife's problem, and I might try to talk her into carrying a couple of our SP101s with .38 spl rds in her big purse instead of the glock that I bought her--those revolvers "take a beating and keep on ticking" (as John Cameron Swayze used to say in my early hunting days back in the '50s).