FBI solicitation progress?

[AMC]

Put me in the "commonality is over-rated crap" camp. We've been stuck with that mindset since 1994. Previously had an approved list (S&W, Beretta, Glock, Ruger...9mm or .45) that we could choose from. Then we had a horrendous gun battle with a heavily armed nutjob, and guys were trying to share mags without success......because we went through hundreds of rounds of pistol ammo shooting at a rifle armed suspect wearing body armor and hunkered down behind several cars against a building line. So of course....the problem was that guys couldn't share magazines! When some of us pointed out that the problem was that it was a rifle fight and we didn't have any....we were looked at as potentially dangerous mental patients. We are still stuck with that mindset, 22 years later.

As for agency procurement at the local level....it is usually about the preferences/fetishes of one, maybe two, people. Our agency has never sought input or tested with the folks who will actually carry the things and have to shoot them. It's about someones gun rag porn fetish.

[psalms144.1]

Two questions:

1) Did the agent in question carry any spare mags for their P-239?
2) Did the agent in question carry a P239 because they have small hands and shot it significantly better than a 229 or did they carry a 239 because it didn't ruin the " lines"of their suit ?

Well, I was just contributing based on your assertion that you were unaware of ANY instance where magazine interchangability was an issue in US LE UOF - so I was giving a recent example. To your questions:

1. The agent in question had multiple spare magazines for his P239 - in his range bag
2. The agent in question carries a personally owned (TDA, not DAK) P229 in .40 as his primary weapon. The P239 issued gun was a backup and for lower profile carry. He had it on his hip that day because it was a range day, and the day of his annual inventory of his issued weapon. When the call came in from a fellow agent of an active shooter, he didn't think to switch weapons, or grab his spare mags out of his bag before piling in the car to head to the scene.

And, yes, the agent is question is a "gun guy," a good shooter and tactically minded - part of the local Field Office's tactical team (back when we had them). He just got bit, HARD, by Murphy on the day his gunfight arrived at his doorstep.

NONE of this should be construed to think that I support the "one size fits some" mentality when it comes to firearms, but it does explain why I carry "families" of firearms (currently G19/G26 paired so one magazine will feed either).

[DocGKR]

"but it does explain why I carry "families" of firearms (currently G19/G26 paired so one magazine will feed either)"

Yup--pretty smart in fact. Nothing worse than reaching for your spare G19 mag during a gunfight and actually pulling out a P228, M&P, or G23 by accident since you forgot to switch...

[HCM]

Well, I was just contributing based on your assertion that you were unaware of ANY instance where magazine interchangability was an issue in US LE UOF - so I was giving a recent example. To your questions:

1. The agent in question had multiple spare magazines for his P239 - in his range bag
2. The agent in question carries a personally owned (TDA, not DAK) P229 in .40 as his primary weapon. The P239 issued gun was a backup and for lower profile carry. He had it on his hip that day because it was a range day, and the day of his annual inventory of his issued weapon. When the call came in from a fellow agent of an active shooter, he didn't think to switch weapons, or grab his spare mags out of his bag before piling in the car to head to the scene.

And, yes, the agent is question is a "gun guy," a good shooter and tactically minded - part of the local Field Office's tactical team (back when we had them). He just got bit, HARD, by Murphy on the day his gunfight arrived at his doorstep.

NONE of this should be construed to think that I support the "one size fits some" mentality when it comes to firearms, but it does explain why I carry "families" of firearms (currently G19/G26 paired so one magazine will feed either).

I carry the same G17/26 with 17s as spares.

I've never met any of your guys but you know EXACTLY why I asked those questions.

We have agents and particularly supervisors who:,
- Don't bring their gun to work
- Bring their gun to work, lock it up and leave it in the office as they go out to lunch, meetings, interviews etc because they "won't need it".
- Primary carry a P239 with no spare mags or better yet, primary carry a P 239 on their ankle with no spare mags.

I'm sure you have the same.

[HCM]

Yup--pretty smart in fact. Nothing worse than reaching for your spare G19 mag during a gunfight and actually pulling out a P228, M&P, or G23 by accident since you forgot to switch...

This is why I carry all G17s for both spare carry mags and range mags. I've also put orange base Pads on all my G19 mags.

I've had people show up to the range with 9mm loaded into 40 cal SIG mags, 40 loaded into Glock 9mm mags, and one guy who swapped sig mags with his brother in law and could not understand why his SIG PRO mags would not insert in his P229. Nothing would surprise me.

[Gadfly]

I'm with HCM in the 17/26 camp. I shoe boxed all my 19 mags into storage as during a qual session I ended up with a 19 mag in my pouch that just did not want to seat into my 17 (go figure). So I have two 17 mags on me always as back up, whether or not the 17/26 is being carried. Makes things easier.

We just authorized the 43 as a back up. So as HCM said, we will have agents and supervisors either not carrying or with just 6+1 in their shinny new 43s...

As noted above, About 15% of our agents are switched on gun guys that try hard and excell. 70% are indifferent and shoot good enough to get by. 15% are f--ktards that could not operate a door knob without assistance...

[Lester Polfus]

Four days into a backpacking trip, I discovered I was carrying a Glock 19 magazine as a spare for my Glock 17. Fortunately, this was during a show and tell session with a member of my party.

From then on I only kept one G19 mag loaded, the one in the gun, the rest were G17's, until I dumped the 17. Now I just have G19's and a Glock 20. I don't get those mags confused.

[psalms144.1]

I'm sure you have the same.

Way far off the topic of the FBI solicitation, BUT, a little more than a decade ago, I was posted in Corpus Christi, TX, and my office covered all of SE TX (draw a line from Texarkana to Del Rio, and if it was south or east of there, we covered it. With three agents...). One of my co-workers was assigned a lead in the GHETTO outside Houston, to interview former "friends" of a service member with "former" gang ties who was suspected of involvement in a number of violent assaults and drug dealing. My boss asked me to ride shotgun, since I knew Houston better than anyone else in the office. So, away we went. We were about 30 miles north of town when I asked my obviously UNarmed coworker "where's your gun?" "Back in the safe in the office, I don't carry that thing..." he responded.

And then he acted surprised when I flipped a fairly high-speed U-turn and drove back to the office, refusing to accompany him.

This guy was NOT one of my range "problems" either, he could shoot (consistent 280+ on the qual), he just didn't think he needed it (career counterintelligence type)...

We all have THOSE GUYS, and, unfortunately, they're not all supervisors...

[TC215]

I just met with the FBI supervisor from their office in my jurisdiction. I told him that I heard that they had narrowed the field down to two guns. He said those two were Glock and Sig, but that he just received word this week that Glock came out on top. He didn't say if he got "official" news on that or if he just heard it from his buddies in Quantico, and I didn't ask. I guess we'll see.

[LSP972]

I just met with the FBI supervisor from their office in my jurisdiction. I told him that I heard that they had narrowed the field down to two guns. He said those two were Glock and Sig, but that he just received word this week that Glock came out on top. He didn't say if he got "official" news on that or if he just heard it from his buddies in Quantico, and I didn't ask. I guess we'll see.

I chatted with a region Eff Bee One SWAT guy, after one here apparently wanted to keep it Secret Squirrel and wouldn't answer my question; their info is that the Sig P320 and the modified G17 are down to final details. The "winner" will be announced eventually.

What is amusing is that a new-version/modified Glock would be useful with the thousands of support gear/holsters/mag pouches/etc. already issued nationwide, while the P320 would need a whole shit-load of extra money to buy such goodies. Is the P320 REALLY better for that than a modified 9mm G17? Somehow, I just cannot see it.

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